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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Light green kakariki
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Light green kakariki
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Light green kakariki

Hi!

I've been today at a local bird shop, and I saw a pied kakariki with a much lighter green, yet it didn't look brownish like a cinnamon does.

Anyone knows if this is (or may be) a mutation or it's just normal?

Thanks in advance!

Regards / Pablo

PS: I'll try to talk to the owner and ask his permission to shoot a pic.
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:48 am    Post subject:

Shocked normal i hope i have many light green ! Pray
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject:

Hi naughtyniike,

I hope you are not playing with the language! (I'm not English speaker, and I make mistakes). I don't mean the bird in question was emitting a green light like traffic lights. Laughing

I make myself clear just in case: I mean... there were 2 kakariki in that cage. One was wildcolor, i.e. dark green, and slightly darker green in the wings. The other one, at least to me, his green was clearer, still, in my opinion, was a "clean" green, not brownish (like cinnamon and fallow).

There were 2 females in another cage next to them, fallow in my opinion (may be cinnamon), and their green was totally different than the other bird.

I guess a picture is worth 1000 words, but first I wanted to ask here. I discussed about the bird in question with the shop owner and he agreed that the bird was different in color, but he doesn't have knowledge on mutations.

Yet I saw some other things that seemed strange to me:

- There was that another bird had a different beak coloration. His beak tip was longer than usually and slightly twisted, and additionally to the dark blue color, the tip had a "cream" coloration.

- Another of the pied kakariki showed a pied pattern that, in my humble opinion, in some feathers had a pattern that reminded me to the one I see on my pearl (opaline) cockatiels, with just some parts of the feather yellow. I don't know if this is just a simple combination of dom. and rec. pied, or could be a trace of the opaline mutation. I don't know how the pigment distribution exactly works, and maybe I speak non-sense, but now that I'm writing, I wanted to ask.

I tell this about the opaline mutation, because when I went to the bird fair at Santarem (near Lisbon, Portugal), I asked a man how much he asked for the only fallow kakariki that was in the show, and he replied me "It's not for sale, do you know why?". I answered "It's a fallow", he admitted, but then asked "and what more?", I didn't have a clue, so he told me "I suspect it's opaline too". I don't know if there's any truth in his words and he was trying to show off, or he was honest. The man was busy and I felt a bit unpolite asking him to explain me why he thought that, so I just asked him his e-mail, but unfortunately I've lost it. He's a dutch breeder living in Portugal.

I don't think that kakariki was from anyone of this forum, as most of your pics show a good red crown, and that bird in question had some yellow/orange.

Of around a dozen or more pied kakariki that came in that shipping, these three catch my attention as they were slightly different than the others.

I'm aware that this is possibly just a false alarm, but I wanted to raise the question and know the reasons of this differences.

Thanks in advance!

Pablo
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject:

Laughing hello ...i am learning all the time about kakarikis i really did not know the darker green are the wilder breed i have only had kaks since the june of 2007..being in England the only colour common to buy are the light green /red cap .its not so common to see yellow( but i do have one)i have 2 really dark greens and 19 pale green with splashed of yellow.
d'oh! so when i say normal i suppose thats the normal for me in the england variety.it seems different areas in the world get different types....so where i live the dark kaks are never mentioned to be not suitable to breed from .as it seems from reading different posts most do not advised to do so....hay ho i am rambling i think.......but if you can enlighten me why are they no good for breeding.... many kind regards x :oops:
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject:

your english i very good by the way!
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pabloc
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Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 988

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject:

Hi niike,

thanks for your support. I try to do my best, but being non-native English speaker, eventually I can say something that doesn't make much sense. For a moment I wondered if light green could have a double meaning of clear green or something emitting a green light.

Now regarding your kakariki... it's the first time I hear about not breeding with the dark greens. Honestly I don't have background for comparison, as around here only 1 shop brings greens and pieds frequently. The other importers / shops, normally only have yellowcheeked or golden yellows.

One of the respectable experienced breeders that frequents this forum has seen my greens and pieds and didn't complain about them being dark green.

By the way... at the bird shop I saw this "rare" kakariki, and where I bought some of my last kakariki they import most of the birds from The Netherlands.

Have a good weekend!!!

Regards / Pablo
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject:

Hi Pablo, it is difficult to judge a bird without a photo. The only lighter mutations I know are, from dark to light; Cinnamon, Bronze Fallow, BronzeFallowNSLino, Cinnamon Fallow. The two last ones are combinations. Besides the cinnamon mutation they all have red eyes.
If you are able to take some pics, it is better to view the bird alongside a normal bird.

I have seen pictures of a so-called Opaline. These birds were yellow crowns and the feathers displayed a bleached effect like we use to see with Cinnamons bleached by the sun. Their price was 1500 a pair.
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wyndara
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:04 pm    Post subject:

Hi Pablo, be very careful that these birds are not infected with beak and feather desease. some of the symptoms are similar to what you have discribed.eg deformed beaks and odd feather colours.
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Keep in mind ..the only experiance I have of mutations is a visit to a couple breeders outside NZ..in Aussie...
What wyndara says above reminds me of either an old post(s) somewhere here or a conservation when overseas...
Also
Quote:
pics show a good red crown, and that bird in question had some yellow/orange.


That is a hybrid..If u look real carefull u will see the "orange " will be a mix of small red and yellow feathers
yes yellow crown are slightly lighter green. We breed both red and yellow crown..(.but never cross thu we have had many 'rescued ' hybrids that have been conficasted from bad breeders.)
The Orange kakariki...one of the rarest and endangered birds in the world, is basically a slightly smaller yellow with an orange nose band...
in the 50s thru to 90s these where thought by Govenment "experts" to be hybrids and quite a bit of expertimentation was done between red and yellow to produce a orange crown or band, in spite of private experts saying the where a separate specs...it was never achieved...only a mix of red and yellow feathers that appeared to be orange.

So I ould suggest this birds you are lookng at are hybrids rather than mutations...or attempts at hybridisation of mutations...Something that has never produced anything "new' in kakariki, other than a hybrid.

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pabloc
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Posts: 988

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject:

Hi!

I went today to the bird shop, and gave a thorough look again, the two birds are similar in colour, shape and both have yellow and green parts in some feathers (I mean a feather part yellow part green), and some yellow and blue in wing coverts. I'm waiting for the owner to take some pics and send them to me.

Meanwhile... I was having a look at the galleries for sake of reviewing all those small details some of you have... and voilez... I came accross Tino at Peter's gallery and both those two birds and Tino had the same cream color spot in the tip of the beak. The other 2 in the shop had as well the lower beak with a broad vertical band of cream, and the female had the beak of the right size. Maybe is something of no meaning at all, and it's just a defect or a spot due to being pied (like toes and nails), but I wanted to ask.

Link to Tino pic

Anyway... let's wait for the pics.

Regards / Pablo
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pabloc
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Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 988

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject:

Hi!

finally I bought the birds and have pics of one of them. Sadly the other one died tangled up in the wire (stupid mistake!!!!). It looks like it's just a pied bird, with a different pigment distribution, and the lighter color due to being pied, not to a dilution. Anyway a beautiful bird. I would like to see how this pattern transmits to the offspring.

Edit: ring nr. of the decesased one was NB07ER13. Will copy the other one this weekend.

Regards / Pablo



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Last edited by pabloc on Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wyndara
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:28 pm    Post subject:

pabloc, very interesting looking pied pattern. i have yellow crowns here at the moment showing a similar wing spread pattern. to date we have not been able to increase the markings. go to a forum titled unusual yellow crowns in species and mutations i have supplied a couple of picts of my birds there. i will be very interested to see if the wing pattern can be inherited by the offspring of your bird.
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pabloc
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Posts: 988

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject:

Hi Wyndara,

I have read your thread. Pity that you haven't been succesful in developing that color distribution. Regarding my bird... honestly I don't have a clue about pigments and pigment formation. I still have to study a lot those subjects, but maybe someone else has an idea.

Regards,

Pablo

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Tontana
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:39 am    Post subject:

Gosh she/he's a real beauty! <v>
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject:

Hi guys,

well... today another member made a remark about the kikes on my sig, and I thought of posting a pic.

Apparently this is not a new mutation. Peter was quite right that the pied mutation somehow lightens the green in some parts of the body and it gives the wrong impression of being a color dilution.
Nevertheless... I was lucky that the special pattern on some feathers transmits together with the pied mutation, so it's probably an allele (variation) of the usual pied mutation in which the feather is either green or yellow.

Let's see if I'm lucky to be able to increase or control feathers with this special pattern, because I think it could give very beautiful birds, with a "pearly" look.



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