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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - male and female look like tiny plucked chickens!
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male and female look like tiny plucked chickens!

 
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: male and female look like tiny plucked chickens!

Shocked i have just been out to my parent birds (they have 5 young)and and was shocked to see they have plucked themselfs to a state that they look ugly and ill....now bear in mind its frosty here and very cold and windly ...now yesterday i ringed the babys and put them back on fresh bedding??so many of these fresh fleather pluckings are in withthem but they have made them selfs sore by doing this ..is this my fault should i just now leave them well alone ,,,have i upset them????like i said in another post i have only had kakarikis since may/june time 2007 and learning all the time......
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject:

I'm quite sure that this isn't due to featherplucking. In my opinion this is the result of a fungus or feathermites. Kakariki are verry susceptible to this as they spent most of the time on the ground, digging and grubbing. Also an insufficient diet plays a part.
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject:

d'oh! diatomaceous earth is a product i have here for de-tick, deflea,de-louse-de-mite de-bug de-odourize.......i will do the nest box and areas too just in case this is the problem,they look a total mess and the babys have lost all the downfleathers .just Pray my other birds are ok will treat all flights too after i do them.it happened all so quickly like within 24 hours of noticing...poor things i will try to sort them first thing in the morning....i feel confident there diet is good as i have taken many tips off this site for that.thanks for the wake up to this,it had not crossed my mind....regards Nikki Sad
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Hi Nikki,
When the babys have lost all their downfeathers they are defenitely plucked by one of the parents. Ussually the female. In that case it is better to remove the female (around the 3e week). In normal circumstances, the male continues the feeding.

But again, I have never seen Kakariki plucking themselve.
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject:

emb god dam it ,they have there tubes/cones starting on the wing ends but it seems she has had a go a plucking them as there is blood lines around the box and they are bleeding around the base of there tubes.(not massive)but for sure very sore. she has been a good mum in the past but she seems well stressed. she had these babys in the night box as i took away the nesting boxes to prevent any more babys for this year( as she manage to rear 8 babys in october) and i wanted her to have a break.but i put a nesting box in for her in the night box when they hatched in order to keep them warmer (its freezing here with had frosts in the nights).... Think i will consider the separation to help them on there way i will have a think Think thanks
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:42 am    Post subject:

i have posted some pictures in the Members Photos
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject:

Quote:
tubes/cones starting on the wing ends

This has serious implcations..damage to theses can result in the chicks never being able to fly.

Quote:
diatomaceous earth is a product i have here for de-tick, deflea,de-louse-de-mite de-bug de-odourize.......i will do the nest box and areas too just in case this is the problem,


Bottom line...Do what hands on expeianced breeders suggest in these forums...we ave all been down the route of trying stuff...
Run a word search for mites, follow what Peter says
I also suggest mist spray flights with 50/50 vinegar and water...dismantle nestng boxes (why we use nestng boxes that are screwed together) wash/waterblast, let dry, then using a LPG totch, scrotch the tumber, spray with 50/50 vinegar add nesting materal that has also been damped ith vinegar mix

that sorts out the possiblty of mite/worms etc

We ave neer had parents feather pluck chicks...thu have discussed the matter wit other breeders who have...a therory is the female, espec if on 3 or 4 th batch, get run down due to diet
Before during and after breeding espec females they need a constant source of high minerail, and constant source proteins (meat stuff in diet section)
The theory is a female could be plucking because of stress.
This was the only difference between breeders who had plucking and us...the diet.

Abot Peter...I dont give complements.just call as I see it..I would consider one of the top experanced guys in Kakariki...world wide
I have chatted to a NZ breeder who has actually visited and met him..
The comment is "hes an amazing guy, his knowledge and what he is able to do with kakariki is abosulely unbelievable"

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Peter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject:

Hi Steps, thanks for the complements. The experience I have with females plucking chicks is that they are very devoted parents. It is very difficult to inspect eggs or chicks with such a female. They simply do not allow it. It's like they are stuck on it.

I also found that it is hereditary. Probably it is a dominant trait. That means that at least 25% of the offspring will develop that behaviour.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Hi Steps, thanks for the complements.

I said "I dont give compliemts I just call it as I see it"
Peoplewho dont know me often think Im rude..those ho do know me, Im just blunt...
yes there are some old posts here that I have been blunt on the 'negitive side'

Quote:
It is very difficult to inspect eggs or chicks with such a female. They simply do not allow it. It's like they are stuck on it.
I also found that it is hereditary. Probably it is a dominant trait. That means that at least 25% of the offspring will develop that behaviour

Interestng... "I also found that it is hereditary."
We only have wilds..no mutations...yes we have had females and males who are very terrortorial about the nest..all hell can break loose...but no plucking
Taking this concept further?? could it be 'conditioning' rather than hereditory" like when hand reared , dont often make good parents espec after several generations??
Or maybe combine conditioning and something lacking in diet (or maybe a chemical in a suppliment which we dont use) that may set off an already "dominant" or highly strung bird

Just tossing idea here..

We have had the rare rogue kakariki...simply just a very bad natured bird
These we simply dispose of...about 3 over many yrs...these birds Im not including for discussion.

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wyndara
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Steptoe I think you are on the right track when you say conditioning. from my experience with hens that pluck chicks in the nest. I have had 3 over the years with this problem. Once they start plucking they appear to continue and on top of this any of their young hen offspring seem to have learnt the trait from their mother and will also pluck their chicks. If I removed the eggs and placed them under a good hen and were all reared normally none of the young hens plucked their young when this was done. plucking seems to have a snow ball effect and you need to break the chain. ie any hens that start to pluck i remove from the breeding program. I have tried diet, different nest boxes, changed cages. swapped mates all to no avail I believe once it becomes inprinted plucking is almost impossable to stop. note over the 15 years i have kept kakariki not one bird has plucked them selves, only hens plucking chicks in the nest box. Naughtyniike after seeing your picts you may have 2 seperate problems. the cock bird shows definite signs of mite, with feather loss around the eye. The hen plucking at the chicks new pin feathers could be as i have described above. I agree with Peter the hen has to be removed or the chicks have to be fostered under another pair, if not there will be permanent feather dammage. Something else you could try is swap the chicks into a much larger nest box but leave the original box in there also, this may just distract the hen from the chicks? Leaving the lid off the box some times keeps the hens away from young , they still go in and feed but dont tend sit with young all day and pluck.You just have to try different things.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject:

Just had a friend who breeds dogs...and does a bit of social work and stuff
and this page was up...he read it while I was making the coffees
He said similar to your post above wyndara in dogs.
Then added the comment that family violence, abuse in ppl tends to be passed down..but when the children are removed or the source of the violence is removed at an early age the stats show the trend stops
Thought that was an interestng comment.

Quote:
Naughtyniike after seeing your picts you may have 2 seperate problems. the cock bird shows definite signs of mite, with feather loss around the eye. The hen plucking at the chicks new pin feathers could be as i have described above.


I wonder?? if the male has mites..then the chances are the female does to, and they are in the nest, and also getting to the chicks and the mother maybe trying to pune them??
Has anyone put a drop of Ivermectin on chicks? maybe 1/2 or 1/4 from the end of a toothpic or something like that?

http://www.kakariki.net/ftopict-992-mites.html

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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject:

Anxious hi all been ready all the posts and the links...feeling i failed my birds now all ....seems its fairly common...have taken on board all the advice i will be trying things over the next few weeks and will put the hen to a resting aviarie and get her back to some healthly looking retired female...she did well last clutch but i did not bother her that much ...thanks to all...... and Mites away onto it big time if thats the case im sorting it ... Laughing
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naughtyniike
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:14 am    Post subject:

<v> hi just thought i would add , i treated the birds for mites ,lice etc, and looking today that seems to have been the problem ,new cones and sprouts of feathers are appearing .and the babys are starting to look better too. thanks for the posts of interest Laughing
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Bertman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject:

wyndara wrote:
If I removed the eggs and placed them under a good hen and were all reared normally none .

Hi wyndara, how does that work, can you put eggs with any female and will she brood them or does she need to meet some "requirements". Do you pick a single female or a bonded pair and if so, how does the cock bird react?
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject:

We have yellow and red crown, If the eggs are ithin a week or so of each batch we will swap the eggs over...makes easy to pick the young from the parents arfter they fledge..If the isis devalope it can be hard to tell

Kakariki, red rump and several other species make good sarogate parent for many specie of parrots
I didnt see i but an aquantance use kakariki to hatch and raise 3 Galahs!!!

Some time back lost a female , so added the remaining 2 chicks to another brood of 3 about the same age...nps

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