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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Hen abandoned nest of 6 eggs, Why???
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Hen abandoned nest of 6 eggs, Why???

 
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fiona
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Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Hen abandoned nest of 6 eggs, Why???

I need some help!!! Sad

My pair of Kakariki's had 6 eggs in the nest and everything seemed to be going just fine. The last few days the Hen had spent a little more time out of the box than usual, but I didn't think anything of it?

Today I come home from work to find her out again and decided to check on the eggs. To my disappointment the eggs were all over the bottom of the box and almost completely covered with the wood shavings? Upon touching one of the eggs it was almost completely cold.

Any ideas on what the problem could be? It is the first clutch of eggs for this pair so I did think that maybe it's because they were inexperienced. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Also have had conflicting answers as to if it is ok to breed birds that are related. I think no but if someone could clear this up for me would be great.
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject:

The basic reasons for abandoning a nest are
1/The hen becomes insrcure do to the nest being disturbed too often..ie by the owner or even mice
2/Parent that have for several generations been hand raised and lost the instinct of how to nest raise.
3/Weather, very exteme such as heat, or a huge thunderstorm above, or fireworks near and such like near by
4/Eggs are infertile
5/Lack of a consistant supply of good food

Quote:
Also have had conflicting answers as to if it is ok to breed birds that are related. I think no but if someone could clear this up for me would be great.

The reality is that there is now a small gene pool for kakariki..hence we find most are relared in some way...This can effect in several ways

1/small batches of eggs and high infertility rates making smller broods, thu this can have a positive effect with parents supplying more food and larger birds.
2/Higher defects and chick death rates...If interbreeding to promote a mutation line or something, one has to be prepared to destory ANY chicks/birds that show any sign of defect...
The latter is the reason I believe so many pet owners come to these forums with birds that have some sort of issue...iresponsable breeders who will sell anything off so the sake of the $. ..then huge vet bills when a Vet is not full honest with the owner to recomend putting the defective bird down.
These defective birds are no good for breeding, thu it is known one may show good trates the breeder is looking for, then they will breed of this bird producing a genetic line with defects such as internal organ function and even blindness that devalopes as adults.. The latter I believe has been a recent issue in Aussie of a mutation line.

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fiona
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject:

Thanks for getting back to me. Applause

Well that's the funny thing, I was very careful not to do anything different with the birds. I never opened the nest box once and the only time I would look through the hole in the box was when the female was out and I was giving them more fresh food.

The birds have always been kept inside to reduce the risk of cats and possible mice disturbing them. Interesting you mention about the birds being hand raised because I actually hand raised the Cock bird. He will only sit on my hand for a few seconds and then fly off again, maybe he is the problem??

I did have the Cock bird paired with another Hen but the babies kept dying within days of hatching (it broke my heart)! I was told that somehow the birds could be related and this was why the death in chicks? But I have always had the Cock bird's parents and the Hen was purchased from a local pet shop? If they were related they certainly don't have the same parents. So I thought this was all very strange to have two clutches of babies and all of them die within a few days. I even rushed some of them to a local bird expert who put the babies into a "ICU", but sadly two days later they died as well despite his best efforts? The parents were feeding them as the babies when taken away the second time had a full crop.

This was why I changed the Hen birds, but now it seems to me that maybe it's my Cock bird that has issues? Crying or Very sad

Should i let them try again or swap the pair?

Thanks for clearing that up about breeding related birds, I didn't think it was a good thing.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I did have the Cock bird paired with another Hen but the babies kept dying within days of hatching (it broke my heart)! I was told that somehow the birds could be related and this was why the death in chicks?

I dont think being related has anything to do with maybe the cock kills the chicks...taking your paragraph as a whole
Thu as I said before if in breeding has been with previous generations, there maybe some trait in the genes that are producing faulty chicks????
Coming back to breeders using defective birds to breed from???
With small gene pools it is a real hit and miss situation... and not only for kakariki as a species...others species also.

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fiona
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Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject:

No that's one thing I am sure of, the Cock did not kill the babies. The babies when I discovered them had no marks or anything to indicate the parents were involved with the death. The chicks died within days of hatching. The chicks were completely perfect in every way, it was almost as if something internal had failed? I am at a loss to understand why, maybe I won't find out?

What would you do in my situation? I will leave the pair as is for the moment but if they have another clutch of eggs that fail to produce any chicks, should I quit wile I'm ahead and take the nesting box out?

Thanks again for your help Steptoe, you really know your stuff! Laughing
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject:

Are you sure it is not heat? This has been a real hot summer this yr..
Avaiary not in the miday sun? positioned so trees give shade to the roof?
Flights have good air circulation?

Failing that
I would pull nesting boxes, dismantle, wash, burn wit a LPG torch
Remove perches floor cover, feeders etc, wash and burn where possible
Mist spray everything with 50/50 vinegar water.
Treat for worms
Eliminate possible contaimation of some sort.
Then try again...

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naughtyniike
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Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject:

Pray hello i agree with Steptoe. but my male feeds the female then she feeds the babies some males feed the babys and the female .....how many chicks are you losing is it a chance they are starving??
are they in a draught......have you considered hand rearing them when they hatch .is the nest box big enough are they being trampled.......do you give a good amount of egg food mix in slightly warmed and moistened....OR TRY another male????
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject:

Egg food mix..
personally I am not a fan of powers, and processed additives...the closest we come to them is the odd cat bisket..
When real fodd veggies go off the birds dont touch it...these powders etc unless real fresh can cause problems.

Just cause it is sold doesnt mean its ok..
Would u eat 10 teaspoons of sugar...no but would drink a bottle of coke rght?

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naughtyniike
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Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject:

:oops: no i use fresh boiled chopped eggs with toasted breadcrumbs and tuna and chopped cooked chicken grated carrot and sweetcorn /celery fresh twice a day .......& wheatabix /bran.
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