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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - 8 eggs on 1st laying
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8 eggs on 1st laying
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Dolf
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject:

Hi Pablo,

Quote:
How are the chicks doing Dolf?


Last time I checked this afternoon they looked fine, thanks.

Also, still four born and still one last egg. If this is the last egg layed, and if there is a chick inside, in theory (well, this being the 1st time I have a pair of kakarikis hatching, I obviously have to relay on the information available around, even thought I also obviously know no living creature is like a machine and the information is just a guideline) he should be born sometime around today or tomorrow. Will see and if there's a new born chick I'll let you guys know.

Regards,

Dolf
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject:

Machines?...out of interest my wife was artifically incubating quail a while back..with constant temp humdity etc they hatch almost to the hr, like little machines.
If you go to a hen hatchury they will tell u the same..
And weknow a breeder who artifically breeds his birds, and again like little machines, right on time under constant given conditions.

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Dolf
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject:

Hi,

Just an update with a couple of pictures of the kakarikis chicks.

Pictures taken some 3 days ago.

Aren't they cute? Laughing

Dolf



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The two youngest ones. Born May 7 and May 8. Here they were 3 weeks old:
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dorf12.jpg
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The two oldest ones. Born May 2. Here they were 3 weeks and 5 days old:
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject:

Beautiful!!!

Besides... the noise they make when they are so young is really funny ""fi fi fi fi fi".

thanks for the update!

regards / Pablo

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Dolf
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject:

Hi Pablo,

Baby birds in general (well, especially psittacine birds, of course Wink ) are, at least for me, always beautiful creatures. But of course (as for human babies) I guess we tend to find our own babies particularly nice Laughing

So far they make almost no sound, except when being fed by their parents. Well, surrounded by adult birds that can sometimes make an infernal noise, maybe I haven't had yet the chance to really listen these babies sounds.
I guess they probably need not make a big noise asking for food because both parents (and yes, the male now also feeds the chicks inside the nest sometimes) have been simply great taking care of their chicks and each time I check they always have their crops full!

I decided not to handfeed them, but I've been doing what could be called "manipulation while in the nest". Meaning that I visit them in the nestbox a few times a day every day, touching them, talking to them, kind of socializing them by getting them used to human close contact.
So far they look pretty receptive, with 2-3 of them accepting quite easily the touch of my hands and not trying to hide or escape. As usually in most clutches of any kind of birds among those I know, where there is almost always one difficult chick (not sure how to define this in english, in portuguese we call it, either in humans or other species, the "black sheep"), here too there is one of them who sometimes tries to hide or escape, but not the other three.

Just a question: could I expect this pair of adults to start a second clutch after this one? I remember reading that many kakarikis breeders use the two nestboxes system for each pair or each cage, as it happens that a pair start a second clutch even before the chicks of the first clutch are completely independent.
Opinions?

Regards,

Dolf
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject:

Drop a 2nd nesting box in now!!!
With the chicks at the stage they are now the female will be getting ready to move.
There are many older posts where ppl have run into trouble not doing so.

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Dolf
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Hi,

Thanks Steptoe.
I mean I just asked like that, by curiosity remembering I've read, probably on some of those older posts you mention, not that I noticed any sign on my female or even my male.

But I guess I have nothing to lose by adding a second nestbox at this stage. Guess that even if I added the 2nd nestbox now, and if they started a second clutch, before it happens it would take at least a week or two. The younger chicks would be then about 4-5 weeks old, so about the time in theory they should leave the nest.

Even if they would need around two weeks to become totally independent, would the father take care of them, while also caring about the female in the new nest, by the time having probably laying some eggs already? My guess is yes, but a second opinion is always w3c.

Thanks,

Dolf
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Femalew heads off to the 2nd nest when the current chicka are about the stage yours are at in the pics
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject:

Hi!

Dolf... if it's difficult for you to place a 2nd nestbox, you may want to try to drop the chicks on the floor of the cage, as some other breeders have said they do. I haven't tried this yet personally though.

Regarding the noise... no, kakariki chicks aren't loud, but the sound is funny to me.
Interesting the black sheep thing... do you know if it's normally the younger/older or is it random?

Regards / Pablo

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Dolf
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:01 am    Post subject:

Hi,

Pablo, it's indeed impossible to place now a 2nd nestbox on this cage. Usually when I build these cages I open "windows" for this effect on both sides of the cages, but when I built this one with the help of a friend, for some reason we didn't do it on this particular cage.
So I guess I won't be able to install a 2nd nestbox. I'll have to wait for these chicks to leave the nest as the other option (drop the chicks on the floor of the cage) isn't an option for me; I simply wouldn't be capable of kicking these chicks out of their nestbox before it's time they do it by themselves Sad

As for the black sheep, well I suppose it's as random as it is in human families Laughing Who knows which brother or sister will be the black sheep? Obviously the signs are probably there since a very early age, but it can be anyone of them.
The black sheep in birds clutches is simply one chick that is either more stubborn than the others, or more difficult to feed, or less friendly, or eventually all this together wall
The same way there is often one chick that is more friendly, or more clever, or al this together.
As with humans, in a clutch of 2,3,4,5, etc, each individual bird has his own personnality, and the same way there are many similarities between them, there are also differences and each one of them has his own unique particularities.

This is what I've been noticing from my own experience, of course.

Regards,

Dolf
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Peter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject:

Dolf,
As long as I breed Kakariki I have never used a second nestbox. I always wait untill there are signs of a next round. For example when the female starts to dig a pit in the nest, becomes more protective for her nest etc
Then I put the chicks on the cagefloor. When the chicks are to young I put them in a small plastic basin filled with woodshavings. They crawl together in a corner. It is important that this corner is closed which gives the chicks a feeling of protection. Dad will continue the feeding.

If you feel yourself not capable to do this then put the chicks back in the nest. You can try to extend the time spending outside the nest.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject:

This "putting chicks on the bottom of the cage" is interesting opition.

Are we talking cages? not avaiaries/flights and about what size?

We have moved nesting boxes from avaiary to avairy and flight to flight without problems
And others have removed chicks for a few days then replaced withut issues.

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Peter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject:

My cages are 120cm x 50cm x 40cm. I know of breeders who put the chicks in a laundry bassin on the floor of the flight/aviary.

Kakariki are verry flexible. I once moved chicks of 3-4 weeks to a cage with an unrelated male. A week before he had finished raising a nest from which the female was removed when the chicks were 3 weeks. So, since one week he was on his own.
He continued feeding the new introduced chicks. I intend to find out whether this feeding is a 'reflex' rather than somekind of hormonal behaviour females go through. The following step is to introduce 3 week old chicks to an adult male in absolute 'non breeding mode'.
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Dolf
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject:

Hi,

Thanks both for the feedback and the great pieces of advise.

Quote:
I always wait untill there are signs of a next round. For example when the female starts to dig a pit in the nest, becomes more protective for her nest etc


Pablo, my female lately started digging a lot inside the nestbox, removing the woodchippings I use in the boxes from one corner to another, for example.
So it seems it would be one of those signs.

I guess it's time I put the children in a plastic box with woodshavings in a corner on the cage floor, clean the nestbox and install it again ready for a 2nd round!

Quote:
Are we talking cages? not avaiaries/flights and about what size?


Steptoe, this cage where I have this one pair of kakarikis is 80cm long (nestbox outside) - about 2,5ft - x 50cm height - about 1,75ft - x 50cm width.

On this pic you can see a very similar one, except this one is 100cm x 50cm x 50cm, and it has two "windows", one on each extremity of the lenght.

I definetely will follow your opinion and use the-chicks-inside-a-box-in-the-cage-floor-fed-by-the-father Laughing system. Guess it should work fine.

Regards,

Dolf



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Dolf
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:11 am    Post subject:

Hi,

Just as an update about the previously discussed: I moved the chicks into a box in the cage floor, but until now, more than a month later, there's no 2nd clutch Sad
I wonder if there will be a 2nd clutch at all this season Think


Now, I have one question concerning the behavior of the father of these chicks towards one of the chicks.
The chicks were born on the 1st week of May, so they are now about 2 months old.
For lack of space, and because I'm still waiting for DNA tests to know which ones are males and females (after knowing I should be able to sell 1 or 2 of them), I haven't separated them from the parents, so they are still living together in the same cage (well, 3 chicks, as one of them is dead in the meantime).
Last week, one morning I noticed there was some blood in the cage and realized it was from a small injury in one foot of one of the chicks.
My feeling was that he had been attacked by the father.
Today I had the confirmation as I visualized the father being aggressive to that particular chick. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd bet that when I'll have the results from the DNA tests I guess that chick is probably a male)
Funny thing is that occasionally the father still feeds at least one of the chicks (my feeling also tells me that one is probably a female, despite the fact that chick is bigger than the other two) but rejects the other two and as I say already attacked at least twice one of them.

Well, my question is: usually is it necessary (or even mandatory) to separate the chicks from the parents? If so when (how old the chicks should be)?

Also, is this aggressive behavior from the father a normal thing?

Thank you.

Dolf
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