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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - A good food (dieet) balance ??
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A good food (dieet) balance ??
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: A good food (dieet) balance ??

I'm thinking and searching for a good dieet .
But what is a good balance between de seedmixture, vegetables, proteins, vitamines and minarals for healthy birds and breeding results ??
Yes I now, it's very difficult, every breeder and holder of kakariki's has his own way .
Maybe the time has come to discribe your manner Think .
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:17 am    Post subject:

I guess most of what other breeders feed their Kikes is described in 'What do you feed your Kikes'. But which diet is optimal? A good question.

A week ago I went to a lecture of a feeding expert. You probably know Jos van Himbergen. He emphasized the importance of 'dry matter' in the food of a parrot. This means that he must be able to regulate his liquid(water) assimilation freely. Although vegetables provide many vitamins, they are high in water. Most birds are not able to digest large amounts of water. In fact, in most vertebrates it can lead to water intoxication. Only a few species can consume large amounts of water, for example Humingbirds and Lories. I don't know how far this applies to Kakariki, but it is something to think about.http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/4/902

Proteins(insects) seems mainly important in breedingseason.

Parrots are also known for consuming fruit. This is partly true. They mainly go for the seed inside.

In practice it means mainly a good seed mix(dry matter); a separate amount of vegetables; meat, insects or eggfood during breeding season and moult; fresh water every day.

The table below represents the % amounts of different food items in the wild. It corresponds with the high dry matter/water ratio. Note the connection of Seeds and Flowers. Both are high in carbohydrates and are always in balance with each other. Seeds are mainly available during Autumn.

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject:

They ome has to consider the the natural NZ envioment anf the the unique part our birds play in that enviroment
NZ had been feologiakky isolated for millions of yrs...and we had no mammal
Hence many most of our birds filled the ecological balance of mammal..
Same so many are now extinct, and where before modern colonisation
Another consideration was the envioroment before human colonistation some 1300 yrs ago.. mainly sub tropiacl forest, and the varst plains didnt exist.
In effect a huge 'jurassic park' with birds of a size now where else in the world.

"Seeds are mainly available during Autumn. "
Yes where the natural enviroment has decidous, semi deciduous and evergreen plants...but when the eviroment has only evergreen, and only a couple semi deciduous species flowers seeds berries (fruit) are all yr round.

Then add to that there are no preditor mammals, birds devaslope to spend a lot of time on the forest floor....even evolving a parrot that cant fly.,, and in effect is more like a monkey.

Also to consider is othe parrots around the world...an Austraian grass parrot and its enioroment, food and water soueces are way different from say a Tropical parrot out of the Amazon.

To roll all parrots into a general 'parrot' catorgory is a huge mistake...
A comparisson would be tropical fish...roll them into a single catigory...temps water type etc...they will be dead in 2 days.

Our kakariki ..a pair will go thru 2 good hand fulls of veggies etc a day, plus fruit and protein...and at an estimate maybe 3 handfull of seed a week

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:16 am    Post subject:

Okay, now we can say each seson has his own food suplies and sourses.
Only flowers in the winter??
Spring is the month of vegetation and leaves, jong sprouded seeds etc.
So little fruit and insects in the summer??
Okay the winter is a poor time, where the kakariki must live on his fat resources from the summer and autum.
Nz has different climates like middle Europe and the subtropic.
I believe that every seson has his own specific foodsource for the kakariki and they will use them, but if i look to the karakteristics , i would say they are a little wrong.
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:26 am    Post subject:

I would say birds in captivity must have also these sesons of the year.
Only then, they wil be in a good healty and have breeding results.
But what is the result if the kakariki is on the nord or south side of the earth.
His biologic clock must turn about a half year forward or backward.
What are effects on the behaviour of the kakariki??
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject:

In the nrth 1/3 of the north island NZ ..Say Auckland up, kakariki will breed all yr round, as one goes sth (colder) the breeding season becomes shorter, and therefore the number of 'batches' they put out becomes less

As far as a "poor" time in winter, even in snow forested areas, there is still plenty of vegiitaion...but a drop in protein.
It seems higher levels of protein can bring kakariki into season...even early...we have tried increasing protein early and had birds sitting on the shortest day of the yr, yet the coldest period is about 4 to 6 weeks later.

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Looby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: winter feeding

ok..k....not familiar with breeding duno ,and from this forum..there are large seasonal differences between climates....are we saying that in winter more (flowers?) ie..seeds are obtained by bird cos thats whats available or cos fat needed...or sound even more dense :oops: ...any usual amount of fruit and veg variety given in summer is still needed as much..

sorry if i making no sense d'oh! ..and what about this water intake?..ie; tomatoes, kiwi,lettuce, carrot...are these to be limited?

MAJOR beginner here......
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Peter
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:31 am    Post subject:

Like many parrots, the beak of a Kakariki is constructed to eat seeds. And that is what he is doing. In the wild he eat mainly seeds(see chart). I believe that flowers must be seen as a substitute. Both provide sugars(carbohydrates). Flowers are available all year around. When seeds are not available(Winter), more flowers are consumed.

About the water I can only say that the kidneys of most vertebrates(humans,rats,african greys) aren't able to digest large amounts of water. Only nectar consuming birds have a renal system that is close to that of a fish. Consuming to much water result in plasma dillution and low plasma sodium.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject:

What Pete is saying ..for heathy birds they should get what food is in season at the time...which is what we do, most comes out of the gardens.

But in NZ we dont have much 'seed' in the forest sub tropical jungle as one gets in the parroy seed from the shop...its more along the lines of 'pine' seed, flax seed, beech seed and larger nuts again unique to NZ.
Also what is unique to NZ parrots is they spend a lot of time on the ground...no preditors, and the diet is high in protien from grubs.
We even have a flightless native parrot.

What is very noticable is that kakariki, compared to burkes, turq, crimsons kings, is the veggitation intake rato to seed is huge...to give a rough idea
They will go 6 liyres of chopped veggie material to about 1/2 to 1 l of parrot seed.
Also with letice, cali etc, even danelion leaves, If they have consistant access , will eat the stems rather than the leaf part...ie the core, of the lettice, stem of the cali....generally those parts we cut off and throw way when preparing our dinner meat..
Watch then eat a liwi fruit, they go for the tiny seeds in it, same with tomatos, then may eat the flesh.

It is not a matter of not giving then high water foods, but rather consistant supplys where they can get primarily what they need.

NZ parrots may have beaks to crack nuts seed, but but rather they use to rip bark way for grubs, chew into decaying logs, crush pumice stones, and break open pine species cones, like kauri, rimu kikatea .along with flax, and cabbage tea seed. and stuff like that.

You may notice that NZ parrots have claws that always need a trim...they tend to be longer than other parrot species.

This unquiness of Nz parrots doesnt make them more difficult or expensive to keep in good shape, but rather the opposite...basically a bit of fruit, incuding your apple cores, weeds out of the garden..puha, danelion, thistle, and the scraps peelings from preparing your meals, a carrot, couple sticks of celery and leaves, crop up up to about 1/2 to pea size, add a few frozen peas and sweet corn... it keeps in the fridge for 3 to 4 days and feed a medium hand full 2 times a day per 2 birds...when u feed the cat.
Dont mix fruit with veggies, doesnt keep as long.
about 3 kg will last about 20 to 25 kakariki 3 to 4 days.
1/2 l of parrot seed will last them 2 weeks, and what is left over give to someone who has budgies or other 'grass' parrots or canary.

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Looby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:56 am    Post subject:

Thankyou so much for ur fantastic( and quick) feed back--much clearer now! Wink

(..lets hope i'm not the only simpleton here, and that someone else has got their answer too!... Laughing

GR8 stuff,thnx!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject:

Quote:
i'm not the only simpleton here


Or stupid question... no such thing
Simplletons fire ahead with out asking the so called stupid question and screw up.
Ever noticed in the classroom, the nerd who gets good marks, has the courage to ask the stupid question?
And the jocks laugh...well 9 times out of 10 they dont bloody know anyway.
They end up sweeping streets, the nerd splits the atom or flighs up to fix the hubble telescope ..to fix a loose bolt a jock forgot to tighten...[/quote]

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Looby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject:

LOL.. :fun: ..

thankyou that made me smile Laughing
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject:

Wasnt ment to make u smile signlol
It is something that Im quite 'hot' on
in forums ..and in general...and have to deal with adults new to computers
who the main reason they are mistified is simply because so called "knowledgable ' ppl talk way over their technical terms level...
knocking any confidence they have in themselves way out, yet they are far more intelligent than they think....
This sort of thing falls in all walks of life, and especially with our older citizens...

Belive it or not Im a very blunt sort of person....and do not tollerate when these things happen.

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Mysty
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject:

I am glad you are up front and honest. It helps people like me who need and want to learn. In my case about a new member of my home - the Kiki - a parrot not well known in my country - and trust me, I ask and read.
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tiki
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject:

Steptoe, i read in one of your other comments that you said to put gum tree in the birds cage, that is easy for me to get with living in Australia, does it have to be a particular gum or can any do the trick, for some reason i thought that they wouldnt be able to eat that, i'm trying to find more natural things to put in tiki's cage to keep him entertained, I am using branches from an apricot tree for perches, I strip the leaves off do i need to do that or would it be safe to keep them on. I know with them being a NZ bird its a bit harder to supply them with the native plants that they would be needing here.
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