Welcome to Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Diet, Health, Aviaries and Conservation!
Ask Questions, Find Answers and DiscussionsKakariki Member Pics, Mutation/Species IdentificationInformation on Permits, Research Papers etcLinks to Other Sites and InformationYour A/C Details, Messages

     GT Modules
· Home
· Forums
· Recommend Us
· Email Webmaster
Email Webmaster for any problems with Registering, the site and General Enquires
·Link to Us, Details
Set to your default home page· Set Home page


       QuickSearch
Search Forums
for key Words
Advanced Search
 Search  Words

     NZ Conservation            Projects


DoC / NZ Conservation Sites


ZEALANDIA: The Karori Sanctuary Experience
New Zealand Conservation Management Group
Karori Wildlife Sanctuary Wellington, NZ
Kiwi House and Native Bird Park
New Zealand Brown Teal (Pateke)


Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Diet, Health, Aviaries and Conservation: Forums

Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Difference between Dominant Pied and Recessive Pied
 Forum FAQForum FAQ    SearchSearch     Log inLog in/Register  

Difference between Dominant Pied and Recessive Pied
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation Forum Index -> Kakariki Mutations and Species
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Peterlimburg
Snr Member
Snr Member


Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:

Got a very good friend..spent yrs hunting Deer etc all over NZ
hes only seen/heard 2 kakariki in over 20 yrs.

Oh and see that dropped blue feather above?
That is quite common in sevel of our blood lines...was quite curious to see the same thing in European birds
In case you Euro guys think it is a 'fault' I would seriouslyreconsider that line of thought.


Why was you so quite curius about that feather??
I'm amazed, it's normal Think ????
2 kakarikis in over 20 years???
Even on a bad day you can see or hear eastgarden ringnecks in the garden. They survive in the wild . In Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag and in the area around there are several wild breeding colonies of them.
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4508

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Why was you so quite curius about that feather??

Our very 1st male had the 'drop feather'
Always thought it wa a damaged folice or something, then thev off spring had it....then we sourced a couple more lines, 1 more had it...
It has always been on the back of my mind, and then saw the birds above also had the same..

Dont get me wrong , there are small isolated flocks scattered around NZ..most it seems not too far from human habitation.....illegal releases s????

The native NZ ecology has been ratherscewed up ...orginally we had 1 mammal, a small bat...birds and insects evolved to 'fill' the role of mammals...everything like huge moa that grazed like cattle or bison..to kakariki that behave more like a monkey.
1st the Maori came..burnt off huge areas of bush, and I mean huge huge. Destoried habitats way beyond euopean settlers..and made extinct more species .
In the early days kakariki where a threat to early settler crops, mass destruction, and mass exported (hence why so common off shore) then stoats /rats/possums/deer/ goats/hedgehogs/ferrits/ mice got into the system...any species that was at rise became exinct or nest extinct to levels they could not recover from naturally
Because NZ was mammal/snake free, this is why we consume something like 80% of the world production of 1080 in consevation efforts.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
Stumbler
Snr Member
Snr Member


Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject:

Those photos from Peter L to me look as pure a Red crowned as they come.
Very nice looking birds; congrats on a brood of nine, well done.

Over some time and having viewed many birds, I have noticed that some Yellow crowned have a clean crown, that is, no sign of red flecks or hueing, but there is a slight faded patch of yellow behind the eye; however a pure yellow should have no markings behind the eye (if I've got that right?).
This could be a sign of Red blood, not enough to alter/morph the crown but an indication of past crossing.
The patch/no patch difference is perhaps a bigger genetic plumage thing than colour?.

I've tried to avoid breeding from Yellows with any sign of colour behind the eye.
In NZ there could be possibly more chance of pure Reds than Yellows but that might be just my take on it and not actually so? Think .

Hybridisation is a controversial subject in NZ; In the wild and through aviculturists.
Though Reds and Yellow wont normally cross unless "forced", there are still a lot of birds kept in NZ with "mucky" blood/breeding. I hope pver time this will reduce.

Stumbler
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4508

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Over some time and having viewed many birds, I have noticed that some Yellow crowned have a clean crown, that is, no sign of red flecks or hueing, but there is a slight faded patch of yellow behind the eye; however a pure yellow should have no markings behind the eye (if I've got that right?).
This could be a sign of Red blood, not enough to alter/morph the crown but an indication of past crossing.
The patch/no patch difference is perhaps a bigger genetic plumage thing than colour?.

I've tried to avoid breeding from Yellows with any sign of colour behind the eye.
In NZ there could be possibly more chance of pure Reds than Yellows but that might be just my take on it and not actually so? .


That is exactly my assement also. im not 100% sure about the faint yellow patch behind the eye....but still agree with your opinion.

Quote:
Though Reds and Yellow wont normally cross unless "forced", there are still a lot of birds kept in NZ with "mucky" blood/breeding. I hope pver time this will reduce.

I believe DoC is a lot at fault on this, too damn leaniant on the grandparenting hybrid stock...in my books just destory them, period.
We have kept yellow and red pared in a flight for several seasons, just to see how easy they may cross...not even interested...and put them in a mixed flight...the king interrealates more with the reds than the yellows...it is as if they dont even see each other... I beoieve "Forced" has to be REALLY forced maybe in a tiny dark box??? to get any result...Im not prepare to experiment to that extent.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
pabloc
Foundation Member
Foundation Member


Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 988

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject:

Oh Steps, you always going to complicated stuff. Give them a few drinks, they'll be having sex 5 mins later.

Now seriously, I think in Europe and US isn't that good neither. I wonder if they are so difficult to breed yellow x red, how come most of the stock we have in Europe has traces of hybridizing!??

Maybe Peter W. can explain a bit about the history of kakariki in Europe.

_________________
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA

http://kakariki2009.skyrock.com/
http://cyanoramphus.weebly.com/index.html
Back to top
Peterlimburg
Snr Member
Snr Member


Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject:

Hybrides are a problem here in Europe, a lot of birds are hybrids.
I'm somethines very angry , be cause there are people who sell, redcrown and yellowcrown as breeding pair wall Twisted Evil
The pictures down are all different types of hybrids.
The birds, first and second picture, are an accident in my avary:oops:
Even I didn't know, a yellowcrown has sneaky accompanied with a redcrown hen.
Now i'm sell all pure yellowcrown birds to a breeder from Belgium, he is specialized in yellowcrown kakariki's.
Hybrids are nice as single pet, thats it.
I believe yellows and reds, if they are maid, they are like rabbits, even better.
I heard some guy from NZ says something about redcrowns on a movie clip, do you now him ??? Whistle Whistle

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion:

Do you know what happens if there comes an blue mutation of the redcrown kakariki???.
In no time there were also blue yellowcrown mutations.
Only that left is then the word kakariki. Think
That's a disaster Pray
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



yellmut.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  16.54 KB
 Viewed:  67 Time(s)

yellmut.jpg



red mut.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  15.36 KB
 Viewed:  72 Time(s)

red mut.jpg



chickmut.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  17.55 KB
 Viewed:  72 Time(s)

chickmut.jpg




Last edited by Peterlimburg on Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4508

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Do you know what happens if there comes an blue mutation of the redcrown kakariki....
Only that left is then the word kakariki.
That's a disaster

:fun: lmao

Now thats a thought....kakariki roughly translates from Moari as "green" or "little parrot"
So A blue mutation would be "kakakikorangi riki" car car key co rang e re key
And the lutinos "kakakowhai riki" ?? car car ko fi re key

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
Peter
Foundation Member
Foundation Member


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject:

pabloc wrote:

Now seriously, I think in Europe and US isn't that good neither. I wonder if they are so difficult to breed yellow x red, how come most of the stock we have in Europe has traces of hybridizing!??

Maybe Peter W. can explain a bit about the history of kakariki in Europe.


There is very little known about the history of Kakariki in Europe. The frenchman Delaurier must have been the first with breedingresults. Between 1875 and 1882 he bred 65 Kakariki with 2 pairs. In the early 1970's Kakariki were sold for 2500€. Thats about 5,268.31 NZD (I need a timemachine). Very often it was difficult to find a partner similar to that of the same specie. Thats why many hybrids are born. Just for the money.
Back to top
Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4508

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:29 am    Post subject:

Couple things to consider
Reds , yellows and orange lived together for 100s of yrs..it is hard thr believe in that time the never interbreed..
I find it hard to believe that any lines after this time even inthe wild are 100% ..maybe 99.9995% or something.
I have discussed this privately with a genitic scientist in NZ...
It boiled down to along these lines
"we have samples from the british musem and musems in NZ...but at the end of the day, informed private breeders will have from their esperiance have far more accuracy in determining pure breeds than any genetic testing."

Yrs ago we got a breeding line that had a faint tellow (see the banner at the top..thats it...my sick sence of humour)
This line has been breed for many generations back to pure breed till well over 95%...from these lines now, we have not had any yellow appear or throw backs down these lines after server generations.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Back to top
Peterlimburg
Snr Member
Snr Member


Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:

Yrs ago we got a breeding line that had a faint tellow (see the banner at the top..thats it...my sick sence of humour)


:fun:
Think thought it was a subspecies of a redcrown kakariki Shocked Think
Back to top
Peter
Foundation Member
Foundation Member


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
Couple things to consider
Reds , yellows and orange lived together for 100s of yrs..it is hard thr believe in that time the never interbreed..
I find it hard to believe that any lines after this time even inthe wild are 100% ..maybe 99.9995% or something.
.


Buller mentioned this several times in his notes. Here are some quotes

Quote:
On the Ornithology of New Zealand. Volume 7, 1874

Platycercus auriceps, Kuhl.—Yellow-fronted Parrakeet.
The small red-fronted Parrakeet, supposed by Mr. Bills to be a new species, is nothing but a variety of Platycercus auriceps, with the yellow vertex deeply stained, or rather mixed with red. Mr. Bills states that he found three of these among 600 specimens taken, and one of these marked “male” is in the Canterbury Museum.


Quote:
Notes on the Ornithology of New Zealand; with an Exhibition of Rare Specimens. Volume 27, 1894

Platycercus novae-zealandiae, Sparrm. (Red-fronted Parrakeet.)

At Tapuaeharuru, on the Taupo Lake, I saw a fine caged example of this species in which the crown and sides of the head had a wash of yellow over the green.


Quote:
A History of the Birds of New Zealand.
Platycercus Auriceps. — (Yellow-Fronted Parrakeet.)

A pretty male bird obtained by Reischek near Dusky Sound, at an elevation of 2000 feet, has the entire plumage tinged with saffron-brown, which is darkest on the breast, shoulders, and upper wing-coverts; the yellow on the vertex is mixed with orpiment-orange; the blue on the bastard quills and primaries is unusually brilliant; the scapulars have a wash of yellow; and the uropygial spots are very indistinct.

I have seen several examples exhibiting marks of red on the vertex and crown;
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation Forum Index -> Kakariki Mutations and Species All times are GMT + 13 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2
Copy Paste Text Here to Translate
Select Language and Translate

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by PHPBulletinBoard © 2001-2008 phpBulletinBoard Group
PHPBulletinBoard port based on Tom Nitzschner's PHPBulletinBoard upgraded to PHPBulletinBoard 2.0.7
Standalone Developed Tested by: ChatServ, mikem,
and Paul Laudanski (aka Zhen-Xjell).

by Nuke Cops © 2004




All Logos and Trademarks in this site are Property of their Respective Owners.
Statements and Views Expressed on this web site Represent the Opinions of the Authors.
Neither this Site or the Publishers of this Site Assume Any Liability for the Information Contained Herein.
ANY CONTENT from this Site can only be DISTRIBUTED/PUBLISHED/USED ELSEWHERE with PRIOR WRITTEN PERMISSION
ALL COMMENTS/PICTURES/CONTENT are the PROPERTY of the CONTRIBUTORS and © 2004/2015 by WWW.KAKARIKI.NET

Web site engine's code is Copyright © 2003 by NukePortal. All Rights Reserved. NukePortal is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL license.
Page Generation: 0.526 Seconds