Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: New law in Europe
Hello dear pet owners
I don't know if it's allowed, to post it here, but we have some serious trouble going on in Europe!!
Concerns about Kakariki and many other bird species and mammals!
In Europe, (The Netherlands, Belgium, maybe Finland and Germany and many others) will provide a new law!
Which is creating a "positive list" for as much species as they know, they will make as much pets prohibited?! o_O
Many parakeets and other exotic birds, but also reptiles and other mammals included
Now it is prohibited to buy/sell/breed birds starting from 01 Januari 2014
And at the 1st of Juli 2014, they will make the list complete, and by the end of this year they will do the clean-out
Cops will work together avian vets etc, and perhaps even kill the animals in some countries if they are listed "illegal"
What are your thoughts about it, do you think a petition will work? :o
I really don't want to lose my Kakariki,
And many people don't want to lose their birds! And would like to keep it as a hobby
There is talk of the same thing in Finland too. Exotic pets hobbyists (birds, reptiles and fish) are putting together a petition to the legislators in Finland in order to try to stop them from making this law and the positive list.
Personally I feel that no good will come of such a list, hobbyist will only go under ground which does nothing to promote animal welfare.
Is there a list of animals?
I can certainly understand some restrictions... like the reduculous situation in the USA where ppl keep lions monkeys dangerous snakes without any basic safely guidelines..
And as far as NZ goes we have registration of dogs... cats and cat damage should also be the responsibility of the owners....
And since NZ ecology is based on no mammals...I do support restriction of ownership of these imported animals that put and damage our unique native animals at risk/ endangered and extinct in many cases.. rats, possums, ferrets, stoats , feral cats.. many replitle and fish species....
But NZ is rather a unique ecology.
From the link I dont understand the reasoning behind the European move or what animals are involved and why. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
From what I've gathered Belgium has already a list of mammals allowed as pets. I'm not sure which species are on that list.
In Finland the proposition is to restrict all exotic pets that can be a danger to Finlands flora or fauna should they escape. The definition of exotic pets in Finland are all animals except cats, dogs, horses, guinea pigs, hamsters and rabbits. All other animals would be illegal to keep whether or not they have been aquired berfore this legislation - i.e. a real risk that people would have to have their existing pets put down.
Although I understand the need for restrictions and would definitely not like the American model of keeping lions and monkeys as pets I feel that this is not perhaps the right way. Finland already has some restrictions on animals suitable as pets as well as following the CITES regulations. Someone wishing to import an animal to Finland has to apply for a permit from the wildlife authorities. This permit, if granted, only applies to one animal and is not cheap. That alone effectively restricts private import and pet shops already have restrictions regarding species they can sell.
In effect. A positive list banning all pets exept from the most popular cats and dogs will only lead to smuggling and animals kept in poorer conditions which does not promote animal welfare. I draw some parallels to my childhood in Iceland.
It was officially forbidden to import pets to the country especially dogs and cats. It was also forbidden to keep dogs in the capital Reykjavik. Nevertheless petshops had fish, small birds and rodents in stock. Reptiles and large parrots were smuggled in by sailors and sold as pets. Even if there should not be any other dog breeds than the Icelandic sheepdog there were numerous breeds kept in Reykjavik alone. Even the prime minister kept a dog! So much for the total ban on animal import.
I know there is a discussion going on concerning a 'positive list' but never paid attention to it. From what I understand it involves certain exotic 'mammals' and no birds.
If there really exist an execution of such a list, the society where I'm a member of would certainly have notified me which they didn't. This morning I went to an animal market and there were many different exotic birds/parakeets for sale. So, in my opinion there is nothing to worry about.
Oh, so, for Belgium we don't have to worry for birds??
I truly hope soo! because shops are indeed still selling them.
But than I'm very sad/worried for my friend in Finland, who has few Kakarikis, for several years already, to put the animals down (to sleep) is just horrible :c
It does not sound right.. I truly hope for her that Kakarikis won't be on the list of Finland, (or other countries)!
In Finland the proposition is to restrict all exotic pets that can be a danger to Finlands flora or fauna should they escape.
This I understand.. except the "can be" in NZ we have list of animals/plants that are a risk..
Quote:
i.e. a real risk that people would have to have their existing pets put down.
Personally the alternative, grand fathering doesnt work going on those policies in NZ over the last 40 yrs or so.....with the result of further escapees , espec into restricted conservation areas including islands.
A tough call ...
Quote:
following the CITES regulations. Someone wishing to import an animal to Finland has to apply for a permit from the wildlife authorities.
CITIES is a different aspect, of which most countries are signed upto... and which near 100% of NZ birds, reptiles, insects etc are on... and may even find kakariki on that list as an endangered species.
Quote:
In effect. A positive list banning all pets exept from the most popular cats and dogs will only lead to smuggling and animals kept in poorer conditions which does not promote animal welfare
I disagree...smuggling exists today.. any increase in demand will be detected far more really... NZ is a target for professional smuggling rings, both import and export.. increase in restrictions in the 80s and 90s created an increase in smuggling and a greater increase in detection, with resultant dramatic decrease.
It is rather difficult to import any animal into NZ...because we do not have most of the bad deases etc that most countries around the world have.. putting aside the issue of risk to native ecology... Zoos and private collections do have special permits and expensive isolation facilities...this is not a problem.
Where a animal is not putting the local ecology at risk.. and doesnt poss a nusence to others around then I dont see an issue...
Personally Im sick of neighborhood cats roaming my backyard, winning at night, digging up my veggie gardens, spraying in the back door and killing the native and exotic birds that frequent and nest in the yard, and terrorizing our aviaries and interfering with breeding programs.
Im sick of roaming dogs fouling our lawns, ripping up our ponds terrorizing our grandchildren, urinating and corroding the wheels of our classic cars.... and attacking our aviaries
We have very strict enforces laws on dogs, and permits are expensive but issues still arise far too often, and there are some very strong moves in this country re cats.. even from registered breeders and cat lovers.
A different point of view.. but the details of the proposed legislation is where discussion lays and "can be" is not acceptable if that is the basis of the proposals. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Quote:
In Finland the proposition is to restrict all exotic pets that can be a danger to Finlands flora or fauna should they escape.
This I understand.. except the "can be" in NZ we have list of animals/plants that are a risk..
A valid point. The fact is that few exotic animals survive the Finnish winter, thus diminishing this particular risk.
Quote:
Quote:
following the CITES regulations. Someone wishing to import an animal to Finland has to apply for a permit from the wildlife authorities.
CITIES is a different aspect, of which most countries are signed upto... and which near 100% of NZ birds, reptiles, insects etc are on... and may even find kakariki on that list as an endangered species.
Therefore it is needed to apply for a permit which states the animal's origin. For e.g kakariki born in Finland a birth certificate is needed and for kakariki imported to Finland a birth certificate and a CITES permit is needed. These certificates and permits must follow the bird all its life and shown to the authorities when needed. This goes for all exotic animals kept as pets in Finland, especially if the animal is CITES 1/A.
Quote:
Where a animal is not putting the local ecology at risk.. and doesnt poss a nusence to others around then I dont see an issue...
Me neither, but the Finnish society for protection of animals has other views...
It is a fact that there are far more abandoned cats and dogs than other pets in Finland every year. Cats and dogs pose greater threats to the local fauna than any escaped pet bird or reptile. Escaped rabbits are colonizing the entire south parts of Finland as they can survive the winter in cities.
Although this is only a proposed legislation there is unfortunately a great risk that there will be no discussion about it in Finland and that the Finnish Society for Protection of Animals will get their way. I do understand and support the need to protect the local fauna but discussion is needed before a legislation (that will not be followed and which is fairly impossible to enforce) is made.
There is a nickname for a certain type of militant animal rights activists here in Finland - they are generally known as "fox-girls/boys". This comes from an incident some twenty years ago when a group of youths liberated all foxes from a fur-farm during one night. Unfortunately they liberated them in a nature reserve area for water birds - during the nesting season... I have a sneaking suspicion that the people trying to enforce this total ban are of a similar nature. They mean well and have noble ideas - they just have not thought the matter through.
Although this is only a proposed legislation there is unfortunately a great risk that there will be no discussion about it in Finland and that the Finnish Society for Protection of Animals will get their way.
There is an old saying along the lines
"A country gets the government/ laws they deserve"
And "the fight for freedom never ends"
If there is apathy then the minority rules... be it pressure groups, big business whatever. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Peter, for now there is only a positive list for mammals in Belgium. Currently the ministry is working on the one for reptiles and amphibians. The one for birds will follow after that one is finished.
Here in Germany, there is a thought to change something.... What has happend is, that there is no need to have a permit to breed parrots anymore. ... and that's bad (for the birds).
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
Words
Forum FAQ
Search
Log in/Register
