Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: Shows and Compertion?
When you guys in Europe and Aussie enter kakakatiki into shows and competions.....Do you show mutations or wilds?
If wilds, what are the pionts that you look for in the 'perfect' bird.
Iwould Imagine
purety, symetrical and darkness of the red crown
The shape of the spot/stripe behind the eyes?
Size? _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest. Crown, stripe behind the eyes are of minor importance. I remember from another member how a hybrid won in the national contest in Holland.
In most of the shows kakariki, redrumps and neophemas are played off against each other in the same category. So, how do they compare?
Last year I had the first single experience in a local show. I had 6 birds. I placed one cinnamon in the category for individuals younger than 2 years. First I had to remove some pied feathers. This bird was the winner in this category
Four normals I placed as a quartet in the category for strains. Again the winner in this category. BTW, there were only 2 contributions in this category. Me and another breeder
The 6th bird, a normal, I placed in the category for 'birds purchased from another breeder'. No points
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest. Crown, stripe behind the eyes are of minor importance.
In most of the shows kakariki, redrumps and neophemas are played off against each other in the same category. So, how do they compare?
So I guess strategy is another criterion.
Yes, here it's also big , bigger, biggest and the rest.
But also the colour, some birdjudges see only a green bird with a red crown and if you have an mution the wil look better. Stupid guys......
Peter wrote:
So, how do they compare?
Very simple, it's the healt , shape and how they show,with no signature of pied and a uniform color. And they must be compleet, no lose of feathers nails or something else.
And very important the personal preference of taste from the judge.
The last years I have won different prices with them in my birdclub.
Note! maximum points were 93 points and is the abolute winner.
Wildcolor male, 1ste price and derby winner. 92 points, other wise he was the abolute winner .
They have must lots, to get the aboslute winner, he has loos.
Then different second and third prices .
Last year, first price, third price and first price with a couple goldchecks.
And winner as breeder with the general most points, average 91 points.
And nearly , that is an other Office Talk, the special price of the federation
for the best bird on the show.
Otherwise Rob Van Opbergen (Kakariki's Birds in the gallery),i know him personally , has very very good birds. He is for me the general champion as kakariki breeder . If i walk at a show and he has birds shown on it , i can see, that they are from him. In Europe are not many kakariki breeders who have such high quality birds. I speak only about the quality mutations. The good (not pure) wildcolourd birds are mostly split for a mutations or pied and mostly never shown.
Therefore, in my view it's be necessary to return to breed wild colors.
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest.
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Yes, here it's also big , bigger, biggest and the rest.
Here in Spain it's much simpler and efficient, there's just 1 category: NOTHING!!!!!!
Let's not forget: bird judges are supposedly breeders!!! People that has been breeding birds for many years!!!
Where I want to go is that they are simply a reflection or a representation of what many breeders do.
About a bird with clear signals of being an hybrid winning a show... well... that's poor performance of the breeder to show such a bird, and poor performance of the JUDGES (plural). I wonder if they would let an hybrid agapornis win as well.
But at least here in Spain with most other birds it's mostly the same. Any big sized cockatiel with 10 mutations and a nice crest is a superb bird.
Only in canaries there seems to be certain seriousness from a few breeders. Very sad because it's a sign that there's people with brains, but unfortunately they don't take the step of breeding psittacidae.
In Spain there are even not many cockatiels and lovebirds in competitions, in fact mostly no competitions at all (once again, only canaries have some representation).
It's in Spanish, but maybe you can see it with Google translator
http://www.aviariopacoibi.com/
It's the website of a Spanish canaries champion. I wish some other Spaniards took breeding with such rigour.
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in my view it's be necessary to return to breed wild colors.
Peter, around 3 years ago when I read Dirk van den Abelee's book, he mentions that any serious mutation breeder must keep a pure wildcolor line. I was indeed surprised about this. This issue showed on conversations with some Spanish colleagues and they all thought it's crazy and useless.
Later on experience showed me that whoever breeds mutations or 1 species seriously, sooner or later needs a wildcolor line for one reason or another.
So... one of my priorities is to start establishing this wildcolor line. Meanwhile I have some pieds and goldchecks that are probably worth breeding, but they are like "paralell" and I will try not to mix them.
Yes... indeed it's less lucrative and less attractive to sell future offspring, but as I didn't plan on becoming rich breeding cockatiels and kakariki... I think I can live with it.
By the way, a small question for both Peters, how successful have you been so far breeding pure greens?
Have a nice weekend!
Regrds / Pablo[/code] _________________ AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
OK IF you guys where the judges, and judging a kakariki section in competion
What would you be looking for in Kakariki wilds?
I see so much variation in crown colour from red to crimson, variation in crown shape and size, iris from orange to red, size of birds male and female, shape of birds from slim to chubby
Yes even colour, good condition, bright eyes, and general well being all taken as essentual basics. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest.
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Let's not forget: bird judges are supposedly breeders!!! People that has been breeding birds for many years!!!
Indeed, by their own species of birds. An it's no garanty to other species.
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About a bird with clear signals of being an hybrid winning a show... well... that's poor performance of the breeder to show such a bird, and poor performance of the JUDGES (plural). I wonder if they would let an hybrid agapornis win as well.
Yes they wood, only if the bird has no sign of a hybride.
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So... one of my priorities is to start establishing this wildcolor line. ..... but they are like "paralell" and I will try not to mix them.
Me too, i like the wildcolor birds, so pure as they are.Nothing more or less.
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by the way, a small question for both Peters, how successful have you been so far breeding pure greens?
Good Question, it's selecting, breeding and selecting. Looking breeding and again selecting.They look pure, but are split for cinnamon or have pied genes somewhere . Cinnamon is easy breeding out , but those recessive pied genes are more difficult to remove. It can be the male, and female ore both who can have those recessive genes in it. You must have some very good looking wildcolor females and so selecting the males on it. And again selecting breeding and selecting etc..... This takes some years to have a good breeding line.
The biggest problem is to hold and get a good fresh bloodline in it. Therefore you need more serious breeders, with the same idea behind it.
The easiest way would be to visit steptoe for a weekend and overnight in his aviary. I wonder if he will notice if some birds suddenly disappeared.
Some European breeders would be very happy with them.
OK IF you guys where the judges, and judging a kakariki section in competion
What would you be looking for in Kakariki wilds?
I see so much variation in crown colour from red to crimson, variation in crown shape and size, iris from orange to red, size of birds male and female, shape of birds from slim to chubby
Yes even colour, good condition, bright eyes, and general well being all taken as essentual basics.
Your Birds, i have seen enough , looking 50 thimes your dokumentaire.
From the beginning to the end, in slowmotion, from the end to the beginning.
Backwards, upside down, you name it.
Your Birds, i have seen enough , looking 50 thimes your dokumentaire.
Keep in mind when they filmed that, the birds where in full molt, and they where also scuffy because we had netted and moved a few around flights. it was out of breeding season, so that shot with the eggs was setup for the producers....And the interveiwers ..never ever seen more meet them, thats all editted in in the cutting room.
Dont believe everything you see on TV shows _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
all my foundation stock comes from the Netherlands or Belgium. I think mostly Netherlands since the batch of birds that I bought in the same shop 2 had NB rings.
One of them is NB07ER13 (maybe you want to contact this gentleman, I'm very happy with this male I got from him, and shows a special pied pattern, it's in another thread in this forum).
Then I have 3 linnies as well NB ringed. One of the breeders I already contacted him (NB 07 UN11 30, NB 08 2KNY - 19 & 21 -).
I'm trying to get hold of the breeders (alerady did with UN11) to know where they sold the birds, etc... so I can track them to Spain
But... the frustrating part comes when I ask the pet shop owner if he could help me bringing some kikes or tiels from breeders I know. It's as simple as going to the exporter he buys the bird from and you sell your birds to him, or I pay you and they simply ship the birds to Spain. No way. He won't do anything. I"m very angry with that.
I hope to be able to use the Mondial 2010 in January to get some birds from a good kakariki breeder, hopefully Peter Wouters, Peter Wauben (peterlimburg) or Rob.
I digress.
Well... back to topic...
Excellent pictures Peter, very well chosen. Are those birds from your own breeding? They are really really nice.
Finally I'd like to ask about this:
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Good Question, it's selecting, breeding and selecting. Looking breeding and again selecting.
If you don't mind, I will open a thread in this subforum, to not mix, and maybe we can talk about breeding systems and selection.
Your Birds, i have seen enough , looking 50 thimes your dokumentaire.
Keep in mind when they filmed that, the birds where in full molt, and they where also scuffy because we had netted and moved a few around flights. it was out of breeding season, so that shot with the eggs was setup for the producers....And the interveiwers ..never ever seen more meet them, thats all editted in in the cutting room.
Dont believe everything you see on TV shows
I only saw a handsome guy with a head, some beatifull birds and a lovelly parrot.
P.s. dirty eggs in a nest are mostly old, dead or infertile .
You can lie very bad i saw it in your eys
Steptoe, cheater. No nine eeeggs on that nest, ah?
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P.s. dirty eggs in a nest are mostly old, dead or infertile .
You can lie very bad i saw it in your eys
Yeah it was a nesting box that hadnt cleaned out yet, and quickly screwed up on the wall...
No 'fraid lieing is not one of the things Im good at LoL ...so it is far easier to just be abnious and blunt... _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Oh!
I really believed you when you were counting!
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, nine eeeggs!
Very convincing.
Reminded me of a good old friend... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHF2P_USE4
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