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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Shows and Compertion?
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Shows and Compertion?
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Shows and Compertion?

When you guys in Europe and Aussie enter kakakatiki into shows and competions.....Do you show mutations or wilds?

If wilds, what are the pionts that you look for in the 'perfect' bird.
Iwould Imagine
purety, symetrical and darkness of the red crown
The shape of the spot/stripe behind the eyes?
Size?

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Peter
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject:

To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest. Crown, stripe behind the eyes are of minor importance. I remember from another member how a hybrid won in the national contest in Holland.
In most of the shows kakariki, redrumps and neophemas are played off against each other in the same category. So, how do they compare?

Last year I had the first single experience in a local show. I had 6 birds. I placed one cinnamon in the category for individuals younger than 2 years. First I had to remove some pied feathers. This bird was the winner in this category <v> Whistle
Four normals I placed as a quartet in the category for strains. Again the winner in this category. BTW, there were only 2 contributions in this category. Me and another breeder Whistle
The 6th bird, a normal, I placed in the category for 'birds purchased from another breeder'. No points wall

So I guess strategy is another criterion.
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject:

Peter wrote:
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest. Crown, stripe behind the eyes are of minor importance.
In most of the shows kakariki, redrumps and neophemas are played off against each other in the same category. So, how do they compare?

So I guess strategy is another criterion.


Yes, here it's also big , bigger, biggest and the rest.
But also the colour, some birdjudges see only a green bird with a red crown and if you have an mution the wil look better. Stupid guys......

Peter wrote:
So, how do they compare?


Very simple, it's the healt , shape and how they show,with no signature of pied and a uniform color. And they must be compleet, no lose of feathers nails or something else.
And very important the personal preference of taste from the judge.
The last years I have won different prices with them in my birdclub.

Note! maximum points were 93 points and is the abolute winner.

Wildcolor male, 1ste price and derby winner. 92 points, other wise he was the abolute winner .
They have must lots, to get the aboslute winner, he has loos.
Then different second and third prices .

Last year, first price, third price and first price with a couple goldchecks.
And winner as breeder with the general most points, average 91 points.
And nearly , that is an other Office Talk, the special price of the federation
for the best bird on the show.

Otherwise Rob Van Opbergen (Kakariki's Birds in the gallery),i know him personally , has very very good birds. He is for me the general champion as kakariki breeder . If i walk at a show and he has birds shown on it , i can see, that they are from him. In Europe are not many kakariki breeders who have such high quality birds. I speak only about the quality mutations. The good (not pure) wildcolourd birds are mostly split for a mutations or pied and mostly never shown.
Therefore, in my view it's be necessary to return to breed wild colors.

Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad They no longer exist as pure birds . wall wall Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest.

:fun: signlol

Quote:
Yes, here it's also big , bigger, biggest and the rest.


Here in Spain it's much simpler and efficient, there's just 1 category: NOTHING!!!!!! Whistle


Let's not forget: bird judges are supposedly breeders!!! People that has been breeding birds for many years!!!
hit the fan
Where I want to go is that they are simply a reflection or a representation of what many breeders do. Anxious

About a bird with clear signals of being an hybrid winning a show... well... that's poor performance of the breeder to show such a bird, and poor performance of the JUDGES (plural). I wonder if they would let an hybrid agapornis win as well.

But at least here in Spain with most other birds it's mostly the same. Any big sized cockatiel with 10 mutations and a nice crest is a superb bird.

Only in canaries there seems to be certain seriousness from a few breeders. Very sad because it's a sign that there's people with brains, but unfortunately they don't take the step of breeding psittacidae.
In Spain there are even not many cockatiels and lovebirds in competitions, in fact mostly no competitions at all (once again, only canaries have some representation).

It's in Spanish, but maybe you can see it with Google translator
http://www.aviariopacoibi.com/
It's the website of a Spanish canaries champion. I wish some other Spaniards took breeding with such rigour.

Quote:
in my view it's be necessary to return to breed wild colors.


Peter, around 3 years ago when I read Dirk van den Abelee's book, he mentions that any serious mutation breeder must keep a pure wildcolor line. I was indeed surprised about this. This issue showed on conversations with some Spanish colleagues and they all thought it's crazy and useless.

Later on experience showed me that whoever breeds mutations or 1 species seriously, sooner or later needs a wildcolor line for one reason or another.
So... one of my priorities is to start establishing this wildcolor line. Meanwhile I have some pieds and goldchecks that are probably worth breeding, but they are like "paralell" and I will try not to mix them.
Yes... indeed it's less lucrative and less attractive to sell future offspring, but as I didn't plan on becoming rich breeding cockatiels and kakariki... I think I can live with it.

By the way, a small question for both Peters, how successful have you been so far breeding pure greens?

Have a nice weekend!

Regrds / Pablo[/code]

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject:

OK IF you guys where the judges, and judging a kakariki section in competion
What would you be looking for in Kakariki wilds?
I see so much variation in crown colour from red to crimson, variation in crown shape and size, iris from orange to red, size of birds male and female, shape of birds from slim to chubby

Yes even colour, good condition, bright eyes, and general well being all taken as essentual basics.

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:18 am    Post subject:

[quote="pabloc"]
Quote:
To my mind the european birdjudges only know 3 words. Big, bigger, biggest.

:fun: signlol

Quote:
Let's not forget: bird judges are supposedly breeders!!! People that has been breeding birds for many years!!!


Indeed, by their own species of birds. An it's no garanty to other species.

Quote:
About a bird with clear signals of being an hybrid winning a show... well... that's poor performance of the breeder to show such a bird, and poor performance of the JUDGES (plural). I wonder if they would let an hybrid agapornis win as well.

Yes they wood, only if the bird has no sign of a hybride.

Quote:
So... one of my priorities is to start establishing this wildcolor line. ..... but they are like "paralell" and I will try not to mix them.

Me too, i like the wildcolor birds, so pure as they are.Nothing more or less.

Quote:
by the way, a small question for both Peters, how successful have you been so far breeding pure greens?


Good Question, it's selecting, breeding and selecting. Looking breeding and again selecting.They look pure, but are split for cinnamon or have pied genes somewhere . Cinnamon is easy breeding out , but those recessive pied genes are more difficult to remove. It can be the male, and female ore both who can have those recessive genes in it. You must have some very good looking wildcolor females and so selecting the males on it. And again selecting breeding and selecting etc..... This takes some years to have a good breeding line.

Think Think Think Think Think The biggest problem is to hold and get a good fresh bloodline in it. Therefore you need more serious breeders, with the same idea behind it. Think Think Think Think

Whistle Whistle Whistle The easiest way would be to visit steptoe for a weekend and overnight in his aviary. I wonder if he will notice if some birds suddenly disappeared. Whistle Whistle Whistle Think Think Think
<v> <v> Some European breeders would be very happy with them. <v> <v>
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
OK IF you guys where the judges, and judging a kakariki section in competion
What would you be looking for in Kakariki wilds?
I see so much variation in crown colour from red to crimson, variation in crown shape and size, iris from orange to red, size of birds male and female, shape of birds from slim to chubby

Yes even colour, good condition, bright eyes, and general well being all taken as essentual basics.


:fun:
Your Birds, i have seen enough , looking 50 thimes your dokumentaire.
From the beginning to the end, in slowmotion, from the end to the beginning.
Backwards, upside down, you name it. Laughing



Sometimes pictures say more then words
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Your Birds, i have seen enough , looking 50 thimes your dokumentaire.

Keep in mind when they filmed that, the birds where in full molt, and they where also scuffy because we had netted and moved a few around flights. it was out of breeding season, so that shot with the eggs was setup for the producers....And the interveiwers ..never ever seen more meet them, thats all editted in in the cutting room.
Dont believe everything you see on TV shows Wink

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject:

Peter,

all my foundation stock comes from the Netherlands or Belgium. I think mostly Netherlands since the batch of birds that I bought in the same shop 2 had NB rings.

One of them is NB07ER13 (maybe you want to contact this gentleman, I'm very happy with this male I got from him, and shows a special pied pattern, it's in another thread in this forum).

Then I have 3 linnies as well NB ringed. One of the breeders I already contacted him (NB 07 UN11 30, NB 08 2KNY - 19 & 21 -).
I'm trying to get hold of the breeders (alerady did with UN11) to know where they sold the birds, etc... so I can track them to Spain

But... the frustrating part comes when I ask the pet shop owner if he could help me bringing some kikes or tiels from breeders I know. It's as simple as going to the exporter he buys the bird from and you sell your birds to him, or I pay you and they simply ship the birds to Spain. No way. He won't do anything. I"m very angry with that.
I hope to be able to use the Mondial 2010 in January to get some birds from a good kakariki breeder, hopefully Peter Wouters, Peter Wauben (peterlimburg) or Rob.

I digress.

Well... back to topic...

Excellent pictures Peter, very well chosen. Are those birds from your own breeding? They are really really nice.

Finally I'd like to ask about this:
Quote:
Good Question, it's selecting, breeding and selecting. Looking breeding and again selecting.

If you don't mind, I will open a thread in this subforum, to not mix, and maybe we can talk about breeding systems and selection.

Regards,

Pablo

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject:

Awww!
I can't edit my prev. post Sad

Steptoe, cheater. No nine eeeggs on that nest, ah?

Quote:
Then I have 3 linnies as well NB ringed.

Linnies mean Lineolated Parakeet (bolborynchus lineola) (katharina for the Dutch-speaking colleagues). I make it clear to avoid confusion.

cheers everyone

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
Quote:
Your Birds, i have seen enough , looking 50 thimes your dokumentaire.

Keep in mind when they filmed that, the birds where in full molt, and they where also scuffy because we had netted and moved a few around flights. it was out of breeding season, so that shot with the eggs was setup for the producers....And the interveiwers ..never ever seen more meet them, thats all editted in in the cutting room.
Dont believe everything you see on TV shows Wink


:fun: :fun:

I only saw a handsome guy with a head, some beatifull birds and a lovelly parrot.

P.s. dirty eggs in a nest are mostly old, dead or infertile . Wink
You can lie very bad angel i saw it in your eys Whistle

I'm no kakariki GURU, You understand what I mean Wink


:fun: :fun: :fun: :fun: :fun: :fun:
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Steptoe, cheater. No nine eeeggs on that nest, ah?

Quote:
P.s. dirty eggs in a nest are mostly old, dead or infertile .
You can lie very bad i saw it in your eys


Yeah it was a nesting box that hadnt cleaned out yet, and quickly screwed up on the wall...
No 'fraid lieing is not one of the things Im good at LoL ...so it is far easier to just be abnious and blunt...

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Oh!
I really believed you when you were counting!
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, nine eeeggs!
Very convincing.
Reminded me of a good old friend... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHF2P_USE4

:fun: :fun: :fun:

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matt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject:

cant say I've seen that documentary is there a link to it somewhere ?
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject:

The 9 eggs was correct...the pair that did have that nesting box did lay all nine...
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