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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Shows and Compertion?
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Shows and Compertion?
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Peter
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Posts: 599

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
OK IF you guys where the judges, and judging a kakariki section in competion
What would you be looking for in Kakariki wilds?
I see so much variation in crown colour from red to crimson, variation in crown shape and size, iris from orange to red, size of birds male and female, shape of birds from slim to chubby

Yes even colour, good condition, bright eyes, and general well being all taken as essentual basics.


- a well defined crown, no yellow edge
- deep dark skin
- deep green feathers
- deep crimson crown
- round shape of the head
- size of the beak
- size of the feet
- size in general
- color of the iris
- nice round eyes
- position, no tail which is pointing vertical
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Hey Pabloc,

NB 07 UN11

NB, means: Nederlandse bond van vogelliefhebbers :it's a bird federation
The same :
P Euro-parrot
AB Algemene bond
PS parkieten societiet

07, the breeding year mostly they have a color,
2009 purple
2008 bleu
2007 black
2006 red
2005 green

UN11 is the number of the breeder, i have 3NHL --........

And then the following ring number 11 , 25, ...etc

If you look at the ring there must also NL stand - NL :country netherlands
BE belgium
DN danmark
D germany
The wildcolor with the purple ring is an young chick from me.

The ringnumber and members are registratet by the federation, only you can't ask for the name and adres of the breeder, privacy.
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pabloc
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Posts: 988

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject:

Peter(limburg),

thanks for the info.
In the past I asked Dirk v.d. Abelee for some help to get contact info. about the breeders, I guess since Dirk is probably a member or a close partner to NBvV and with an explanation on my side that I have the bird in question, they accepted to put me through.

Actually what I do is to offer them to give my e-mail to the breeder, but I guess it's easier for them to give the contact info. to Dirk.

Right now I'm not sure about the NL letters and an additional serial number on the bird, I must re-check. What is for sure is that ER13 exists and breeds kakariki. Only Dirk contacted him directly but I guess if you contact NBvV there's some way to make contact with the breeder.
This particular ER13 guy I think is probably worthwhile to contact him because of the special feather pattern of some of his birds.


Peter, nice explanation of some of the individual points to take into account when selecting.
Regarding the perching position, for instance in cockatiels the standard says the back should make a straight line at around 70 deg. with the vertical.
http://www.acstiels.com/articlesSstandardofperfection.html

In your opinion, what should be more or less the perching position of a kakariki? (fairly difficult to tell in my opinion, as they only stop to sleep signlol )

regrds / Pablo

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Peter
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject:

pabloc wrote:


In your opinion, what should be more or less the perching position of a kakariki? (fairly difficult to tell in my opinion, as they only stop to sleep signlol )


Indeed difficult to tell but when the tail is in a straight position with the rest of the body it is OK for me.

Another important point in shows is the degree of tameness. Tame birds are more relaxed when people are passing them and look bigger compared to untamed birds.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Rem I have never slown birds, and to show a kakariki in NZ I need to apply for special permits from DoC etc etc...even just to take kakariki in a cage to show a school class...
And we only have wilds...We dont seletive breed, other than abything that looks defective is culled.
Also my comment below are also based on other kakariki in other collections
///Marks comments

- a well defined crown, no yellow edge
///Yep
- deep dark skin
/// and you mean legs like in picks above(?) I have never seen dark skin like this, light grey yes with claws a little darker grey
- deep green feathers
///Breast tends to be a little darker than the pics, and backs are also deeper/darker green
- deep crimson crown
///Athu varies from a light red to deep crimson, the deep crimson is tends to be more common where there is no history of hybridiation.
- round shape of the head
///Deepens if male or female, thu slight variation
- size of the beak
/// Yep a good male has a wide and long beak, and the female small and 'dainty' thu this also varies greatly
- size of the feet
///Not sure what is meant here, but long claws, that look as if need clipping compared to other species of parrot.
- size in general
/// Our kakariki all are larger than most others I see, thu this varies regardles of blood line, in male and female...both the bulk and over all size.
- color of the iris
//Again varies between a reddy orange to a deep red
- nice round eyes
/// Strange comment(???) all ours and what I have seen have large bright round eyes
- position, no tail which is pointing vertical
/// yes basically a stiaght line, from the back of the head , down the back to the end of the tail...the occassional bird we have culled because of defects (which would have died naturally in the wild) has also had a slightly dropped tail line.

The very dark skin /legs has me wondering...this some sort of mutation ???

Dark green...we notice, espec in our early days of breeding, this went darkerer and more floresent as we adapted our diets, espec with higher protein iron and vit C combined together. We also saw a change in the kakariki and the kings and crimsons we held at the time...and when the chicks where raised with parents on this diet they where also effected in the same way...This also gave us birds far greater in size and bulk, chicks lager than parents, even female chicks...also the same with our kins and crimsons.

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject:

matt wrote:
cant say I've seen that documentary is there a link to it somewhere ?


I have the documentary uploaded , special to let you see how Mister Steptoe looks and lives with his birds Laughing

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/Peterlimburg/Filmpjes/?action=view&current=kakabig.flv

<v> Applause Applause Applause Yes, meet the webmaster himself <v>
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Peter
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Posts: 599

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
- deep dark skin
/// and you mean legs like in picks above(?) I have never seen dark skin like this, light grey yes with claws a little darker grey

The pic below is made in the NZ wild(if I'm not mistaking by Luiz Ortis Cathedral). The feet are not vissible, but the skin around the eyes is very dark.

Quote:

- deep crimson crown
///Athu varies from a light red to deep crimson, the deep crimson is tends to be more common where there is no history of hybridiation.

Idea

Quote:

- size of the beak
/// Yep a good male has a wide and long beak, and the female small and 'dainty' thu this also varies greatly

What I meant was the general length. Especially of the males. Buller mentioned an average upperbeak of 2cm. Untill now I've only seen one bird which came close to this size.

Quote:

- size of the feet
///Not sure what is meant here, but long claws, that look as if need clipping compared to other species of parrot.

What I mean is actually the tickness of the feet/toes. Some have very fleshy feet.

Quote:
.
- color of the iris
//Again varies between a reddy orange to a deep red

The reddy orange... could it be an expression of a hybrid history?

Quote:

- nice round eyes
/// Strange comment(???) all ours and what I have seen have large bright round eyes

Some have oval shaped eyes. More the result of a hanging upper eye lid instead of sickness.

Quote:

The very dark skin /legs has me wondering...this some sort of mutation ???

I have no idea. Buller also mentioned grey to browngrey skin. Confusing.



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Steptoe
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Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The pic below is made in the NZ wild(if I'm not mistaking by Luiz Ortis Cathedral). The feet are not vissible, but the skin around the eyes is very dark.

We have none with dark skin..all grey
The pic above...I have seen before???
Where does that bird come from Titi tiri martangi?
I suspect that is a hybrib....the kakariki released on tiri tiri yrs ago from private stock, inspite of private breeders warnings, DoC released these.
And now are not considered suitable for release.

Quote:
What I meant was the general length. Especially of the males. Buller mentioned an average upperbeak of 2cm. Untill now I've only seen one bird which came close to this size.

I have not measured but most of our males have beaks that would certainly be this size...

Quote:
The reddy orange... could it be an expression of a hybrid history?

Possibly...The history of our birds decades ago is unknown...it is only the occassional bird throws a sliglty redy orange iris

Quote:
What I mean is actually the tickness of the feet/toes. Some have very fleshy feet.

No havnt seen this

Quote:
Some have oval shaped eyes. More the result of a hanging upper eye lid instead of sickness.

No have not seen this either

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matt
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Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject:

Peterlimburg wrote:
matt wrote:
cant say I've seen that documentary is there a link to it somewhere ?


I have the documentary uploaded , special to let you see how Mister Steptoe looks and lives with his birds Laughing

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/Peterlimburg/Filmpjes/?action=view&current=kakabig.flv

<v> Applause Applause Applause Yes, meet the webmaster himself <v>



thanks for posting this link angel
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pabloc
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Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 988

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject:

Hi guys,

been looking around for some kakariki pics and found these, which are maybe of some value to continue the discussion about a good standard:

Red fronted

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevex2/3898977329/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/philnz1965/3085941027/in/set-72157611181991822/


Yellow fronted

http://www.flickr.com/photos/philnz1965/3990098186/in/set-72157611181991822/

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pabloc
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Posts: 988

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Crown shape and size

And now... I have been taking a look at my birds and different pics on the galleries and other places on the net.

I would like to ask a couple of things specific about the crowns:

- I have the impression yellow f. have a shorter crown, is this right?

- Regarding red f. what is more desirable, that the crown extends after or before the eye?

Original by P. Wouters: http://users.skynet.be/kakariki/Male.jpg


Original by P. Wouters: http://kakariki.net/modules.php?set_albumName=album21&id=Dominant_Pied&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php


Original by P. Wauben: http://kakariki.net/modules.php?set_albumName=album27&id=IMG_1155&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php


- Finally... orange f. and yelllow fronted seem to have a semi-circular crown edge. But on red fronts I have seen several types, from straight to more semi-circular (haven't found a good pic of a red front to explain this). Once again, what's the best choice when we select chicks, a rounder or straight crown?
Original by www.kakariki.net http://kakariki.net/modules.php?set_albumName=Species&id=oran_and_yellow&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php


I appreciate your inputs.

Thank you

Have a nice weekend,

Pablo

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject:

You must select the chicks on a sharply delineated round crown without fray feathers.
Then there's the broad round crown and elongated round crown, the best is the broad round crown.
If you add all criteria together , you will need some years to breed and create a top bird. The fun it is to find birds with the relevant characteristics.
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pabloc
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Posts: 988

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:54 am    Post subject:

Hi guys,

I needed to review this post for reference/study now that I have 2 chicks with nests and observe them.

In these months after we started this discussion, has there been any updates or remarks you'd like to add about kakariki selection?

Thx / Pablo

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Stumbler
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject:

Hi

Regards selection, other than bird size/vigour etc I only have issues with Yellow crowned and any patch behind the eye.
Though debateable re- diet etc, I believe that a more pure bird will have no markings as I've observed on wild birds.
All my YCK breeding birds have no sign of a patch and their off spring are the same.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject:

Jim,

I have also noted in different pictures that some yellow crowns tend to have a broader red band than others.
But I can't tell for sure as I have not seen enough yellow crowns in flesh.

Any inputs about this?

From the European colleagues, do you know if there has been some work/initiative as to establish a standard for kakariki species? Or some sot of workgroup as there seems a proliferation of them as of late (lineolated parakeets, forpus, neophema, lorikeets,etc..)
I have just checked on NBVV website and it doesn't mention anything, under "Overige Australische parkieten" Cyanoramphus are not included.
http://www.nbvv.nl/tt/standaardeisen.asp
http://www.nbvv.nl/tt/downloads/standaardeisen/OverigeAustralischeParkieten2010.pdf

Thank you! / Pablo

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