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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - my chick has problems with legs :(
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my chick has problems with legs :(

 
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dorotee
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Joined: Jul 03, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: my chick has problems with legs :(

Hi Everyone!
I`ve got two 25-days old chicks, and they were growing wonderfully but last week we noticed that the elder one has problems with fingers, especially with "thumb", which are twisted under the foot and the chick is sitting on it contantly, some of the others fingers are growing in wrong direcions as well.... so he can`t hold our hand or anything like the second chick Sad
i wonder if that is a kind of some genetic disease...? or maybe when he will be adult, already sitting on the branch, all fingers will turn in correct direcitons??
here you can see pictures of out chicks :)
http://picasaweb.google.pl/jascur/Ptaszory#

greetings,
Dorota
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Peter
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Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject:

Hi Dorota,

From my experience this is a mild form of Calcium/Phosphor deficiency in the embryo. This is caused by a Calcium/Phosphor deficiency in the diet of the hen foregoing on laying eggs. I have found that administering Calcium only is not sufficient. Birds require a Calcium/Phosphor ratio of 2:1
Most eggfoods contain sufficient Phosphor.
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject:

This can also be, and a combination of what Peter says above, due to hand feed , or chicks played with too early.
They are forced to use their legs before devaloping strength in bones and ligaments.
Often the ligement that goes down the back of the leg flicks around the elbow.
It is my understanding it can sometimes be put back very early on, but if left the leg becomes useless.
This results in the bird not being able to take flight effectivily, land and walking.

This is one of the primary reasons that we do not hand feed or handle chicks till it is obvious they are walking around in the nesting box by themselves.
A couple yrs ago we put cctv camera in a nesting box, 24/7, and recorded
It was very apapant for the 1st few weeks, the chicks moved by rolling, and the hen would also roll them...
This is very different to other species like cattle or deer, where the legs are one of the very 1st things that devalope often within minutes.

I would check out with a vet, I believe they maybe able tp operate, but sucess rate is low and it is expensive.

with parents raised on a consistnt natural varied and balanced diet, and their babys also raised naturally the same way...we have noticed we get far bigger, healthier, stronger offspring....across all our parrot species.

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dorotee
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject:

Hi!
Thanks for the response, but i think our parrtos are having very balanced diet, a lot of vitamins, minerals etc., so it`s not likely to be the problem.... Think and we don`t feed the chickes, only the mother does, we took them out from the box first time when they were about 2,5 weekes only to clean it... could we make any demage? we were very gentle....
now they are very strong, and look healthy... if not that poor leg Sad
but now i can see, that the chick is sitting properly, moving a lot and fast, so maybe he will be fine....
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject:

Keep in mind of the info in posts is for others , in the future able to refer to

We have never cleaned nesting boxes while chicks are in there...
And on several occassions the female has laid in the box again before we have got to clean out.
This could cause problems with Ammonia etc if to crampted or too sealed up (covered in some very old posts)

I dont think from your description re handling is very likely to cause issues.
Such issues can happen 'naturaly' a big thunder storm, mice, things like that. We had a King last season and happened because of a stray cat attacking flights in the middle of the night (we have cctv cameras covering avairies and our collection of classic cars)....eventually we had to put it down...after consulting a very experianced Avairian Vet from Sth Africa, we learnt about the above.

Keep a an eye on it, check with a vet at an early stage, just incase....if it doesnt fix, the bird may have to be put down.

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dorotee
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject:

here is the photo of his legs....
right leg is much better than i was even week ago, all fingers are in proper direction and he can grab me quite strongly, but there is still problem with the other leg... although when i give him my finger to "exercise" a little, he can grab me as well, only the thumb is "going" backwards... what do you think?
and i wonder if it`s all because (i suspect) his parents are brother`s and sister`s?



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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject:

Quote:
only the thumb is "going" backwards... what do you think?


I still think the same as I comment above

Quote:
and i wonder if it`s all because (i suspect) his parents are brother`s and sister`s?


Maybe, thu even in nature everyso often a defective baby is born, be it a dog , cat , people or birds. In capitivity survival rates of such birds are far greater

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Peter
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject:

Deducing from the photo it appears that the leg was broken and grown together in a wrong direction. I still believe it is caused by a mineral defficiency. On the pic below you can notice the same. I had several of these chicks. After adding adequate Phosphor the disorder disappeared in the following nests.

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dorotee
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Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Thank`s for all comments... this is the first time we are having chicks, so my experience is not impressive... but i`m trying to do my best :)
is there anything i can give them now to strenghten the legs? any special kind of food?
fortunately the chick is very active, sitting properly, stretching both legs... so i guess it doesn`t hurt him anymore....
We would like to keep both chicks, and i wonder how they will manage with Dad, who is still surprised by all situation, pretending not to even notice them....?
sorry for all these questions... i read most topics here, but you know... these are my first chicks Wink
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Stumbler
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject:

Hi Doratee

I remember seeing somewhere a splint was used in a situation like your birds, I think it was on a budgie; perhaps a web search on chick foot/toe deformity splint etc? might help.

It was a small piece of half dowel where the birds foot was placed as in a perching position with the toes all put in their correct position around the curved part and straped on with a thin bandage.
The manipulation and re-positioning may correct any displced tendons or joints.

If the hip and leg are looking corect then it probably isn't a splay-leg type thing.
As mentioned often deformities can be nutritional, more than nest trauma.

Any improvement in it's perching/walking capabilities will benefit the bird in later life.

All the best.
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dorotee
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject:

Hi Stumbler!

we`ve been thinking about a kind of splint, but can we make it ourself? We could go to a vet, but our chicks are so friendly with us, so trusting that i wouldn`t like to stress them ( i have bad experience with their parents). and i don`t think, any vet i have here would make such a small splint..

we are checking his leg every day, it seems to be changing, adaptating.... it will never be a normal leg, but i think he will be able to grab things - everyday we are exercising with him - on our fingers or branch so he could learn how to sit on it and he is doing fine :)
i hope is it OK to "exercise" when he is only 4 weeks?

greetings....
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dorotee
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Joined: Jul 03, 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Hi again!
I just wanted to say, my chicks are doing great Laughing specially the one with leg problems (one thumb fell off and now he can climb without problems, the other is still twisted).
but i`m a bit worried because my chicks have left the nesting box (they are 6 weeks now) and started to fly, try to eat everything etc. , when i put them back, second later they are out, as the nesting box happend to be not deep enough :oops:
is it Ok. at this age?
the other problem is, Dad is still afraid of them d'oh!
and chicks are chasing parents with open beaks all the time.....

greetings!



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