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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Blindness in yellow mutation
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Blindness in yellow mutation
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Lin
Snr Member
Snr Member


Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject:

JohnV wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to but in, but ..... here in the uk there is so little information on these great birds and any you do find is pretty useless or mis-informed guess work. Finding this site was a real godsend for me and hundreds of others. At least Steptoe and a few others are helping to further other peoples knowledge based on facts that they have discovered and discussed with other breeders, Vets etc. I think they deserve some recognition for the work and effort they put into this site to make it what it is, A great site.

John


Absolutely! Thanks Steptoe, all the mods, and the great, knowledgeable breeders on here! Your making these birds have a much better life by educating us all
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mikef
New Member
New Member


Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject:

Hi Brett, a reply to your posting 6.11pm.30/6.
I do not think that it (the zoo's Yellow birds) was the same gene, as the blind gene in question is not lethal. Although quite a few have been bred, they nearly all have been euthanased before fledging. Two have been allowed to survive for the sake of knowledge. The first one lived to more than 6 months and drowned in the bath water. The second one was euthanased after 6 month when it became obvious that there was little quality of life. Currently there is another one in other hands that will be allowed to live its natural lifespan in an effort to add to the pool of knowledge about this gene.
Hope this clarifies your query.
As for other'threads' (is that what you call them?) I feel, for the sake of still waters, they do not merit a reply. I do however agree with one of the members who emailed me personally, that it was much more informative and stimulating than 'my little Kaka said his first words today'
regards Mike Ferguson.
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Steptoe
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4550

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject:

mikef
You have just pissed me off with your attitude.
I suggested that u keep posts to the subject...

But no...u decide to hammer pet owners, not releasing it is them that, that breeders sell to.
To them their pets are part of the family.
Not only that this site is about helping them out to, ansewering their questions, and a place they can search for answers...
These posts are very important to them and many other members.

You come here with the intention of grinding an axe with members, be they breeders, pet owners, and even the Admin

Grind you axe elsewhere.

I have suspended your membership...u refused at take note of my warning.

_________________
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
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Kaka-riki
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Brett,
Thank you for the phone call last night. After our discussion I can now see where the confusion has been created. My original posts (in reference to a breeder here in Sth Aust) came about after a telephone conversation with a mutual friend of both Brett and myself. This particular breeder kept Kakariki several years ago and became frustrated with the fact that the yellow mutation he produced died before reaching fledging stage. These were a red eyed mutation. The birds were subsequently sold to another breeder (here in Sth Aust) who keeps a very low profile but has continued to try and establish this particular line. I did in the early days buy some birds from this breeder, but had no success and after investing a large sum of money decided to go in a different direction. I wrongly assumed that after reading Brett's post in regard to the red eyed pieds and then the subsequent post on the yellow mutation that he had in fact decided to try his hand with birds from the breeder also. My jibe at this breeder NOT outcrossing his birds was made in jest as several experienced breeders have tried to convince this particular gentleman that with the discovery of the two established yellow mutations it would be interesting to perhaps outcross some of his birds to one of these in the hope of rectifying the current problems he is experiencing. Brett, has confirmed to me that was not the case and so I apologise to anyone who took my comments as being directed at them. This was not the case as I am sure Brett will confirm.

In answer to the original question I would also add this information. When the recessive pied first appeared in Australian aviaries there was a mad scramble to increase the pied areas as quickly as possible. Several breeders "line bred" their birds in the hope of establishing better coloured birds in the shortest possible time frame. Whilst some success was achieved using these methods there was also some problems with both fertility and size. A recognised breeder (in Qld) also inadvertantly introduced the mottled bird into his line of recessive pieds. We visited his aviaries in 2002 and subsequently purchased all of his stock including the original mottled pied hen he had outcrossed to his pied stock. The prodgeny of his original stock is now widely distributed around Australia and I have noticed that the mottled pied still has some effect in these pieds. There is also some discussion at this time as to why the mottled pied mutation produces birds with a distinct iris in the eye while other birds have a clear black eye. We have recently sent pictures of the different types of eyes found in the Kakariki mutations to a genetics expert in the hope of establishing some form of link to the subtle differences found in the mottled pied.

To summarise I would be interested to know whether in fact the birds you posted about do in fact carry any of the mottled pied genes and if so which particular gene it is. I am of the opinion that perhaps the mottled pied holds the answer to many of these questions. We do know that it has been in Australian aviaries for many years but so little information has been tabled on it to date. In light of the Europeans believing there are in fact both single and double factor birds in the black eyed clear, is it possible that the same applies to the mottled and that the blindness is the result of this particular gene in the mottleds. Do the affected birds display and iris or are they of the clear black eyed variety. These facts may help unlock some of the mystery surrounding the mottled mutation.

I can also confirm that a breeder has inadvertantly paired a mottled bird to a black eyed clear and also produced a clutch of yellow birds. This information has really created further questions as the two mutations are very different in their genetic makeup.

Once again I apologise to anyone who believes I was taking a "cheap shot" at them. I certainly am not in this hobby to try and corner the market and or change the opinions of others. I keep and breed birds in a manner I believe to be correct but repect the rights of others to do likewise with the birds in their care.
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Peter
Foundation Member
Foundation Member


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject:

Something that attracted my attention reading this topic were the red eyes. I was wondering if this involves the mysterious Fallow where we were talking about recently.
Of certain Fallows in the world of parrots/parakeets it is known, and I quote a sentence found on this site http://www.euronet.nl/users/dwjgh/define.htm
Quote:
Gene acts in melanocytes and has pleiotropic effects in ruby eyed fallows such as high mortality rate after hatching and inborn weakness.


A mutation can be defined as a damage to a certain locus. Often this damage has spread to nearby loci. These other loci often have action(s) not visible in the plumage but rather internal. These are the pleiotropic effects.

I wonder if the Fallow we were talking about recently has the same gene(s). In a reply of Terry Martin on the genetics forum I have understood that this Fallow gene can be separated from these pleiotropic effects by conscientious outcrossing to healty birds.

I have 3 of the mysterious Fallow BEC combo and I don't know if it is a coincidence but all of them seems to have somekind of infertility problem.
2 of them are males which seems to have no interest in the opposite sexe.
The 3 is a female. She lays eggs but seems to have no motivation to incubate.

I have no experience with the Mottled pied but I know that it is polygenic. This means that there are several genes involved on the same chromosome and on other chromosomes. When we add the latter to our minds then I wonder if it isn't possible that the mottled can be (sometimes) interwoven with the Fallow.
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