I'm glad I managed to get back here tonight and read what was replied to my post last night.
I want to point out to you that the situation of the kakarikis I referred to above and them now having young do not belong to "my friends", they were at a place where I went to pick up my cinnamon hen some weeks ago that was brought across from the mainland, I happened to post what I had seen and how someone was breeding their birds. I am totally against the size of the aviary also etc.
I have NO idea for what reason, purpose or intention those particular people were breeding for.
I, do however breed birds to handrear, I have done so for the past 6 years and have bred and reared many different species of birds. I breed to handrear because that is my passion, I do not do it for the money, never have and never will. I thoroughly screen people before they are worthy enough of purchasing a bird from me, I have refused to sell to people in the past and will refuse to sell in the future if I do not believe you are good enough to provide the necessary requirements for the bird.
I'm not sure why it is but it seems that no matter what I post I pretty much seem to receive a lot of negativity, maybe i'm too sensitve, I don't know, I joined here to learn about Kakariki's and I happened to of posted some threads that obviously didn't go down too well. I took note that you said it wasn't a personal attack on me so thank you for that.
I guess from now on I would be better to refrain from mentioning or referring to other peoples situations and only talk about my own and hopefully I can still come here and ask questions seeking answers. _________________ ~~INDI~~
Our replies where not directed at u and reference to "your friends" by us is a miss understanding on our part....for which we apologise.
This site is about the promotion of care, support and good breeding/keeping practises. With very low tolerance to anything else.
There occasions where good and responsible breeders have sent off birds to ppl, only to find a while later they have died or don't breed. It turns out they have sub standard conditions. Then they cant take responsibility for that. These ppl then start bad mouthing us as having sub standard birds.
No doubt u have come across the same thing....It make one very angry, not so much the bad mouthing, the fact that they, in effect, killed the birds....oiften ............slowly.
Not long ago, a member here, an active conservationist, came across sub std conditions and very sick kakariki. He took them and started to bring them back to health. He realised he was a little out of his depth.
Thru this site he was able to contact us, we contacted another breeder who had the room and facilities to isolate. He then air freighted the birds up.
Althu while in his care, he took advice from the site, they improved substantially, when the arrived, they where still in very bad shape. Couple had to be destroyed, the rest have since recovered.
This is not an isolated incident.
In NZ We cant even assume that a Kakariki breeder is responsable.... althu DoC are meant to inspect and check conditions and capabilities of the breeder to gain and hold a current permit.
I hope that u accept our apology on the basis that conditions like u described above, cause a deep anger...we shouldn't have "shot the messenger"
Steps. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
As I said in my original post, I was not attacking you personally and if I offended you in any way I sincerly apologise. I make no apologies for getting people "fired up" over certain issues to do with breeding and selling birds. I have not time for people who treat any animal with the lack of management and repect they deserve. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to keep pets of any kind.
Whilst I am not suggestiing the people you visited dont treat their birds right in regard to diet etc I think overcrowding in aviaries is something most people tend to ignore. That is why I was probably too blunt in the reply I posted.
As for feeling like you have been victimised in other posts, that is probably again in refference to some of my replies. But, at least you have shown the courage to put these issues up for discussion. I commend you for that and believe you are an assett to both this site and the future of Kakariki in general. My style of replying is probably the only thing that needs addressing and not the subjects you post.
Please dont refrain from posting whatever it is you feel is worthwhile putting up for discussion. Keep an open mind. There will be times when you feel everyone is against you and nothing you say or do is right. But, ultimately this site is a learning base for all of us and I have certainly taken some of the things you have mentioned on board and whilst I may not always agree with you it doesn't mean I am right. Discussion in any form is the only way breeders will learn new ideas.
I have taken a very active role in trying to secure the future of Kakariki both here in Australia and in New Zealand. If I get angry when posting a reply it is not a personal attack. I am merely venting frustration at what has (and still is) a very long journey. Some of the stories I hear of so called breeders ripping off others to make a quick buck makes me angry and only yesterday I had to explain to an elderly pensioner that the birds he saved for three months to purchase are in fact not what he was led to believe they are. He has paid nearly three times the market value for these birds and will never achieve what he had hoped for.
In closing I apologise to anyone who may have been offended or who now thinks they wont post on here for fear of being ridiculed. Please dont be afraid of people like myself and if you think I am wrong or you feel victimised then do as Indi did and say so. In future I will get my better half to screen my posts. She loves to show me the error of my ways. But then that is typical of most women, isn't it ????????????????
P.S. That last comment was added AFTER she read this post.
I'm still here - ya can't get rid of me that easily
I'm here to learn, and even though I can say to you that I've bred and handreared many different species of birds in a very short time of 6 years I am by no means an expert, you NEVER stop learning and that's why I joined here to learn and understand about Kakarikis. I'm not going to dwell on the setup and situation of the said Kakarikis as I myself was not impressed.
I think this is a great forum with a wealth of knowledge and I have plenty to learn. Forums are for learning and open discussions and sometimes there will be disagreements but that's what it is about, I just happened to speak out at the time and express what I felt.
Anyhow moving along, no probs here and i'll continue to learn from the ones with the knowledge. _________________ ~~INDI~~
My original thought when starting this thread was to ask about others experience in a mixed aviary. I am fully ware that best breeding results happen with a single pairs per aviary and tha bloodlines will be difficult to establish in amixed aviary.
My whole idea of building a mixed aviary is to have a large enough aviary (say 10m by 5m by 3m high) in which to have some vegatation and a couple of different pairs of mainly kakariki interacting with a few other species in order to create a more "natural" and fun environment for mainly hand reared / tame birds and that will allow me to interact wth them. Any breeding would be purely accidental.
I think most novice / new bird keepers are inclined to stuff a random assortment of birds into a far too small aviary and wonder why their birds fight, bleed, die and don't breed. It is the role of more knowledgeble and experienced birdkeepers to help inform newcomers to this fasinating hobby.
WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WELL BEING AND HAPPINESS OF OUR BIRDS AND WE CAN INFLUENCE OTHER KEEPERS POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY.
I have an update on an experiment we have tried in relation to this topic.
We placed 4 young birds into a conventional aviary that measures 10 ft x 4ft x 7ft. These birds were not paired and all were approx 9 months old.
2 nestboxes were placed on each side wall (making a total of 4) along with 2 feed stations.
The birds seemed to get along okay and eventually one hen was found to be sitting on 8 eggs. These were found to be infertile but we left her to sit on them until she became bored. The eggs were removed and nothing happened for several months. About 2 weeks ago I noticed one of the cock birds feeding this hen again. Everything seemed normal. Appearances can be very deceiving and have severe repercussions.
This morning during feeding I noticed the hen had several scruffed up feathers and there was a broken egg on the floor of the aviary. I stepped away from the aviary and watched for a short time. The second cock bird went into a rage and was attacking the other 3 birds. Where this sudden aggression has come from has got me puzzled as these 4 birds have been together for several months with no sign of trouble. I have removed the offending bird and the hen is now settled back into a nest box.
It really goes to show that when more than one pair is placed into an aviary you should always keep a close eye on what is happening in there.
As mentioned in an above post on our experiments. we had a similar experiance in our experiments.
Unlike above..they are all Wild Red Crown.
A flight 1.3 m Wx 2.6 L x 2.4 h A flock of 6 that have been together for a few months where moved into it. A couple started mating. Once they went into the nesting box, there was one other male that tended to intimidate a little. As the eggs where laid he got more so, to all the birds male and female.
Any stress in flight I give it a couple days only. I dont enjoy stress, I do enjoy our birds, I cant if they are stressed.
I reason, a leave for 2 to 4 days, sometimes there is a challenge/change in 'pecking order, this is a natural sociral past time in the wild to. If one has kept a Hen house and and 3 or 4 hens for fresh eggs in the kitchen...they do the same, except since they are bigger it is far easier to observe.
After 3 days. I moved him to the next larger flight with a pair of Kings and a hybrid male..(a bird I aquired and use as an example to show ppl what to look for) He would attack the wire, and after a day spent long time on the wire, just wanting to have a go...a week he was not worried about the guys next door. The birds in the flight next door, settled down with in hours of the removal... The other males and females with the nesting pair Nps even to the extent of the other male feeding the female...he was not allowed into the nest.
Those chicks hatched, and came out, the orginal pair, laid another batch of eggs. Every one seems to feed everyone... All 9 now sleep in both nesting boxes Its near imposable to tell who is who..thu one does get to reconise each bird after while.
There are 9 in there, anymore the water gets dirty to quick. Im finding that water is a good gauge of how many a flight will hold. If the bowl is of reasonable size and a daily change by automatic hose each day, the volume of the water put in is a little over the volume in the water tray, and it is cloudy in 2 days...the flight doesnt support the population. _________________ My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:27 am Post subject: Captive breeding
Hello all... just want to toss in my 2 cents worth
Untill my Kak's started to breed, I could not comment now I shall, as 2 of my pairs are now actively trying.
I had all my kaks in 1 large cage until one was killed by the others. I blamed the most agressive ( and newest ) male, altho I did not see it happen. I then moved the offender to a separate cage. After I had introduced a nest to the group cage, the squabbles became much more frequent, so I now have the breeders in separate cages. I can closely observe them over extended periods, as they are in my living room. I now only let 1 pair out at a time to stop the fights. They (the males) ( Ricky & Sandy ) still take "pot shots" at each other through the cage as the other climbs over it, but so far nothing serious. Neither cock allows the other anywhere near their hen, and they do not let her out of their sight. They are always close by.
I have an odd out ( yellow front ) male ( Fred ) right now who is kept on his toes by the breeding latino male ( Ricky ), with whom he shares the cage. He will be getting his own cage soon. There was harmony ( relativly speaking ) until the nest was introduced.
Seeing what I have, I can not imagine harmony in a flock setting, unless the flight is huge. My vet says roughly 2 m radius around the nest is "their nesting space" and they will defend it fiercely. The Latino ( Ricky ) nips at me quite hard if I get too close to the nest, and I usually have to distract him when I want to check it.
The hens don't seem to care.
[quote="Kaka-riki"]The biggest issue with colony breeding is keeping track of the young birds. It is highly likely that the pair you think is responsible for the young in the nest are not the parents at all. If you have more than one cock bird in the aviary you can never be sure of which one is actually the dad.
This is because a hen is not that fussy about who she mates with.
Sorry, this is probably very true, i just had to reply as it made me laugh. Not because it is incorrect, just that in my aviary I have 3 cocks and 2 hens and one hen is definitely picky!!! She will not have anything to do with other 2. Is she a one-off then or can they on occasion be picky?
It is known that chicken hens are able to produce fertile eggs 3 weeks after removing the cock. So, imagine that a Kakariki hen loses her mate (sickness, dead)during an early stage of the breeding cycle(when first matings take place).
From Budgies we know that there bond is broken around 4-5 days and Budgie hens cannot distinguish between two courting cocks. I believe it goes the same way in Kakariki.
When you introduce another cock short after this stage the hen wants to mate immediately.
In this case you never can be sure that this male is actually the dad.
I have a hen who use to breed very regularly until her mate found some freedom through a small hole in the aviary.I then placed her with a spare cock bird that I had and she would not have anything to do with him.I later caught the escaped bird but did not get a chance to put them back together for about 3 months , as soon as i did within a few weeks she was back in the nest and brought out 4 young ones.So I really think it depends on individual birds.
I do not say this is incorrect but personally I don't believe that the hen you mentioned have recognized her former partner. She only recognized a matching partner. The fact that it didn't work with the other male means that they don't match, just like it goes with humans.
That is my opinion.
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: Many helpful answers from everyone, thanks!
I had posted a question earlier on a different thread and after being told there is a way to look up specific info found this thread more then informative. We had wanted to get Kike a mate, which we're told was female with him in the cage from the pet store, but we are not interested in breeding Kaka's as we breed and show our rats througout England.
I read where other didn't have a problem with putting a few males together and they were able to work out their own way of deciding who's Alpha in the cage. So if possible I think we may 1) rethink our thoughts on aother friend for Kike and 2) if we do get a friend it will be male as we're not knowledgable to try breeding yet. It took me personally *Gray* over 5yrs of having rats and gathering information and getting a mentor before I started breeding rats properly and getting good genes, health, attitude and so forth with both parents to produce the best I could in a healthy line. I'll need at least that much time before making any commitments into breeding Kaka's.
Too many rush into breeding before researching everything out and sadly it's always the animal that suffers.
Gray _________________ Regards :
Simon, Gray, Kikee Megan the dog and the rest of the Zoo :)
All times are GMT + 13 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2
Page 2 of 2
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum