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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - infertile female?
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infertile female?

 
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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:55 am    Post subject: infertile female?

hey guys

i was wondering if any of you have ever had an infertile female?. I have had her for about 3-4 years now and she was said to be 18months when i got her. She was also said to be male but she laid an egg so that changed it! signlol

she has laid about 3-5 eggs in the time we have had her, 1 without a mate and a few with him. they were at it like rabbits and she showed all nesting behaviour signs, she laid a few eggs but the male ate them.
they had paired off completely with the male feeding her and being VERY defensive!. they had good sunlight and a good diet but she stoped laying when they started mating properly like as soon as he got the hang of it she laid no more although enjoyed the attention tremendously!!
I wondered if it could have been the male as he was handreared if this resulted in an inexperience or something i dunno

however she has been with a new male in an aviary now since summer 09 and although they are mating and she is getting the best diet shes ever had which is high in calcium and is exactly the same as a breeding pair in the other flight still no laying. she was with an immature male which she paired off with and was mating with, however still fancied the guy next door. we ended up switching them round as respective partners fancied one another.

the make she is paired with now is about 2years old and has paired off with her again however she is showing all nesting behaviour again, being fed by him, loads of food, loads of daylight etc and still nothing she keeps looking like she might lay an egg and then doesnt!

no eggs have been laid in about 2 years irrespective of her partner so i am wondering if she is infertile and if anyone has any experience of having an infertile bird?
obviously i am happy to have her as a pet breeding is not a must have by any means wouldnt swap the gorgeous girl anyday just curious

thanks
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject:

Describe "best diet"
what they are feed, but how much, how regular, (every day) over a yr.

The most common reason is inconsistant and/ or a diet lacking in a couple critical nutration, or not enough or too much of some components leading up (6 to 9 months before breeding season.)
This effects some birds (male and female) more than others....
ie 1 pair may breed fine for a few yrs before effects them, the pair next door can effect that season.

In the wild they get what they need when they need it...Even then food supplies in the wild still go in cycles, so one yr a bumper flowering of native beech creates a good breeding season the the next couple seasons only a few pairs produce chicks.
In capitivity they only get what they are given...anfd even thu the diet may have produced 'bumper ' breeding in the 1st couple yrs, in the 2nd or 3rd season poor results are seen.

At the moment we have a pair hatching their 2nd batch of 8 eggs
next door, all 7 eggs have been infetile, for the 2nd time round this season.
The female is a bird raised here, the male sourced before breeding season.
Actual infertility outside diet
The general 'rule' we have found, and this is just from our experiance, if the female lays eggs, it is an issue with the male.

I think comments/discussion from other breeders are in order, as the above is just our therory, experiance.

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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject:

good quality seed without sunflower seeds, millet spray, egg food, fresh veggies every day-2days, bread and lactofree milk, harrisons seed now and then, occasional calcium water as the female that bred apparently had a calcium deficiency when we got her. there are plenty of feed stations, which get replenished daily.
she is feeding herself, not getting fed all the time

it is more the fact she is not laying, i dont mind if they are fertile just the fact she seems desperate to nest and is not laying. she has only ever laid a few eggs in her whole life apparently none before i got her at 18months.
she seems to eat well and shows no other adverse affect/symptoms of anything apart from not laying.
she was with the male (her 2nd partner) who has fathered the baby we have at the minute so he is definitely fertile. Is it likely to have had 2 infertile males paired with her? the one with her now is the best he has ever looked since we had him, coat condition etc as is she, she was always scruffy looking but now looks show quality.

thanks for the advice steps much appreciated :)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject:

You should be using a quailty parrket seed mix with sunflower....
Protein...meat, chicken , bones, and chicken bones split so they can get to the marrow..left over steak etc is chopped into 1/2 pea size
Protien in the months leading upto breeding season is essentual.
The bones and the cartlage on them is one of the best sources of calcuim

Meat/bones , boiled eggs, veggies and fruit are supplied separatly

Quote:
veggies every day-2days

We feed 2x a day
A mix of
1/2 kg frozen peas
Following is chopped up into 1/4 to 1/2 pea size
2 meduim size carrots,
1/2 kg frozen sweet corn
1 capsium
4 cellery stems and leaves
1/3 beetroot
1 deli pack of alfa/mustard and pack of mung been sprout
4 or 5 silver beet stems
5 or 6 beetroot leaves and stems
Puha (milk thistle, leaves, stems flowers)
Dandlion flowers and leaves
Nasturshin seeds flowers and leaf stems
1/2 doz Spriggs of basil mint rosemary sage.

From Kitchen scraps
couple cali/broccoli stems
potato/kumura pumkin skins seeds
carrot ends and peelings
Basically near all our food preparation scraps
And now 1/4 of raw (red) palm oil

This makes up around 4 to 5 kg lasts 3 1/2 to 4 days in the fridge for 30 to 40 birds
The last feed we add a couple cap fulls of apple cider vinegar

Fruit..what is in season
1 pair have
1/6 of apple
1/2 kiwi fruit,
1 plum
1/8 of an orange or grapfruit
2 of these and what ever else are supplied each day.

Then as suppliments we give 4 or 5 cat biskets per bird every 2 to 3 days and 3 chopped up boiled eggs...usually left overs from our salids .
They also have small branches of kanuka, manuka, kawakawa, pstosorum (NZ five finger,) puriri when in seed, hebes and what ever is being pruned in the gardens at the time
And ripe rose hips (we do not spray our roses) fusha berries, and a few grapes every now and then when in season

Cuttle fish is always avalible and pumice sand on the flight floors.

30 to 40 parrots go thru approx 6 L of seed and approx 8 to 9kg of veggies plus fruit
left over seed (not husks) each week is about a cup and 1/2
left over veggies /fruit/ bones/meat 1 to 2 L at the most

As you can see your basic diet is very different from what we supply, in quanty and in type.

It takes approx 30 mins to prepare veggies etc every 4 days for 30+ birds in 2 avairies with 13 flights, plus the house parrot.
Couple minutes to feed 2x each day
30 mins to clean water trays each week (we have automatic watering replacing water each morning)
And 45 mins to clean out flights every 10 to 14 days.
Seed is replenshed every 10 to 14 days.

Your prediment sounds very much like a diet issue that has accumiated over a long period of time....it can take 4 to 6 months to get the birds back on track and ready for the next season.

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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject:

sorry am away at uni at the min so was off the top of my head:
i missed that they get chicken bones and the left over meat scraps e.g chicken, have cuttlefish attached at multiple points within the aviary. we gave them seed with sunflowers but i was told by breeders they were high in cholesterol and should be fed as a treat which is how they get them (used for interaction and training) also we have zebra finches in there who shouldnt have them

they get fed 2-3 times a day 1) veggies, 2)seed 3) scraps from kitchen/bones

the water is done daily, they have apple branches to chew mineral and iodine (?) blocks attached as a supplement. the day- 2 days was we vary the order of feeds some days so if they get them lunch time and they get LOADS we will leave it for the next day.
they also get soak seed and high quality finch seed on top. they have high protein egg food as well.
they get dandelion leaves when we have them (frost killed them off lately)didnt know they could have the flowers will have to add them in

the veggies they get are: apple, orange, pears, grapes, peppers, chillie peppers, cucumber, bean sprouts, carrot, occasional small amounts of lettuce, pineapple, melon, strawberries, peas, corn cobs, rocket passionfruit (whatever is in season at the time) they also get the carrot peelings, tops off carrots, parsnip peelings

they get herbs e.g rosemary, thyme, basil (read the thread and added them in)

so basically i need to add in apple cider vinegar, boiled eggs, the sunflower seeds again (not a prob we have some in)

i dont know where to get palm oil, will any other oil do?? cat biscuits(any particular type? are there diffs??

they dont eat all the fruit and veg we give them -is giving them too much bad?

does it still sound dietary ??? :s
thanks steps
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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject:

reread and realised had not answered all your post again sorry steps

they get fresh water every day and dishes are cleaned every few days
cleaned out every 10days roughly-they have a hay floor does the lack of pumice make a big difference??
seed is replenished daily with complete replacement every 4-5days and husks blown out daily.

forgot to make clear the finch sees is a high mineral supplement

so to summarise because i know ive got a bit lost

daily:
replenished seed (fed at 1 sitting)
a mix of veg (fed at different sitting) and LOTS of it if anything we give them too much as have to remove some to replenish list is in post above
they get chicken bones and chicken meat and leftover chicken scraps and pork etc
they have constant access to cuttlefish, iodine and mineral blocks
fresh water daily
access to milletspray constantly
high mineral supplement
they have constant access to fresh herbs which they use to preen coat
daily soak seed
plus milk and bread
they are fed different things2-3 times a day
they get piles of high quality high protein egg food every day
plus occasional zolcal added to water for added calcium

think i have covered everything now! phew signlol
what do you think? what are the main areas need to improve on?

thanks :)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
iodine (?) blocks


A note here..NZ soils have a near total definecy in iodine...hence why the early human population sufferened badly for goiter ot gout..forget which.
The Gov added iodine to table salt in the 1920s..fixed the issue...then the PC people a few yrs ago jumped upand down about freedom of choice, the iodine was removed and gess what has happened...

iodine is not part of our birds diet ...
Bread and milk remove.
The finches from our experiance dont get into the sunflower much, but polish off the seeds the other parrots dont eat.
Sunflower like 99% of most foods in too higher concentations yes cause problems, in lower concentrations no
Hence why our seed it replenshed 10 to 14 days...they hoe into the sunflowr in the 1st few days, run out and are forced to eat the rest of the mix
If you have finches or grass parrots, they may also get into a few sunflower for a few days, not enough to harm...

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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject:

brilliant thanks steps, so got the basics and will tweak the rest :)

will add those things didnt have in like the egg and restructure what they get fed and when and see if it makes a difference

iodine block will go! it was advertised as a bird mineral block so picked it up as extra but they dont use it anyway so will remove it!
no more bread and milk got it!

THANK YOU :) always good to check am feeding them the correct things! now can make adjustments
thanks for taking the time to reply :)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject:

Really dont have the time.... wall
Still have to put up another 4 nesting boxes, find a squeek in the back seat of the camaro, and on the road trip last week..fix the wper switch...
knock the nails back in on the house roof and seal, hang the washing out and fill the dishwasher signlol
But we are coming into the hottest week of the year..its stinking hot and muggy...so coming in for lots of water and quick break

Oh yeah trim the shrubs and mow the lawns.....

Cheers
Steps

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