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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Kakariki keeps laying eggs
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Kakariki keeps laying eggs

 
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lahvik
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Kakariki keeps laying eggs

We donīt know what to do anymore. Our kakariki has been laying unfertille eggs since the beginning of September, usually every second day, there was one period when she did not lay for about a week, but then again and again. We were first adviced to keep removing eggs, which we did.. But it did not work. Then we were adviced to keep our kakariki on diet, we tried, but again, no help. About 10 days ago we decided to try last option and buy a nest house for her. She has been sitting on eggs for over a week now. But still she lays an egg every second day. Right now she has there 8 eggs (on 6 she sits, 2 she moved out from the box and does not care about them).
My wife found on the internet information, that kakariki female makes some thing in her mouth during sitting on eggs, which she should give to the baby birds after they were born, but if there are no babies, she can swallow it and it is poisonous for her, is that true? Anyway, if it is, how can we help it?
Next problem is that she (Darwin - first we thought she was a male) keeps making a GIANT "poos" for about 3-4 days now. We followed the advice on the internet and about those 4 days ago cooked an egg (15 minutes, grated, mixed with grated carrot) and gave her about 2 spoons. She ate it during the day and since next morning she seems do be having these kind of problems. The poos are about 3x3 - 4x4 cm big. Until today she has been keeping makind such poos, they are usually white color (in the beginning they were dark green).
We are pretty worried about her, she is now about 7 months old, we have her from the age of 2 months. We try to make the best life for her, normally she flies and plays outside of cage 1-3 hours a day, she gets new water twice a day, food, we play with her and talk to her a lot, she goes to sleep in reasonable hour... But with this we donīt know what to do anymore. She does not seem ill, though she is not so active as usually and not making sound often.

Here are some facts what we do (maybe we do something wrong):

carrot - about 5 small round pieces in the morning and 3-4 in the evening
apple - 4 pieces (2x2x0,3cm)
one round piece of kiwi
all this powdered with a river sand a little and also crushed shells, crushed egg shell.

mix of grain - we bought a special for Australian/New Zealand parrots (barley, wheat and some smaller things i donīt know how to call them)

water with special minerals for parrots

mineral stone (though she pays no attention to it)

cuttlefish


Please, we will be very happy for any advice (especially what to do with eggs - let her sit on them and make more eggs - when will she give up??? Sad ), what to change in food (so she would stop making those giant poos)... Simply any help you can give us would be great.

We really love her and we want her to be fine again (although she seems still happy, but...).

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
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lahvik
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Joined: Sep 16, 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:47 am    Post subject: Just some pictures...

Isnīt she cute? :)


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When itīs hot...
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lahvik
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: 2nd

...


darwin_wet_small.jpg
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And when it is rainy... :)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject:

Hi
1st lets look at this
Quote:
that kakariki female makes some thing in her mouth during sitting on eggs, which she should give to the baby birds after they were born, but if there are no babies, she can swallow it and it is poisonous for her, is that true?

I have never heard that..never seen it, and consider it total rubish...
The male feeds the female by chewing up selected foods re gurgating (chew up, swallow into the crop then force back up) it...
She feeds the chicks with it...If no male she doesn't it all... When she goes to the 2nd nest th male now supplies here and weans the old chicks off.
Parrots also do this often if they have a mirror , try to feed the mirror ....Ever heard of a mirror in a cage that caused the death of a parrot or bird by these means?
Not an issue of worry.

Now the egg laying and other issues....
Sry a little blunt here....
Yes egg laying can be an issue with some females....the only time we have ever seen this issue is from females that have been paired off, or maybe have a strong 'relationship' with their owners.
BUT I do get the feeling much of all your issues are a result of having issues, then going overboard on selective diets and remedies to the extent of limiting to remidies...

Lets take us foe exanple....eat a lot of eggs and that will bind u up...yes we need eggs in our diet, but along with a balanced diet...

And u are tending to over supply stuff by putting excessive amounts ob their food ..forcing maybe more calcium and selected vitamins and minerals into their bodies....
A balanced diet means just that...same as a balanced fertilizer in the garden....The garden may have all the nutrients for the tomatoes and cabbages to grow BUT if there is too much phosphate % and too low a nitrogen % for the cabbage it will not heart up and go straight to seed.
And if there is a reverse for the tomatos they will grow big leaves stems, not many flowers with small and very little fruit.

And yes the same happens to us and our pets.

Now stop dropping additives over their food....read the thread "what do u feed...."
basically throw them a few smashed cooked chicken carcass bones left overs....chopp bones...bit of left over cassorole....
Chop up all the scrapes from your dinner preparation...potato skins, califlower /broccoli stems (a must has the phosphorus to absorb calcium) the carrot peelings....your apple shins.....everything.
Throw a few frozen peas and sweet corn in the mix....bit of dandelion and milk thistle, nastertion flowers seeds stems....
3 Kakariki will damn near go thru 2 good handfuls of such a veggie mix a day....dont mix fruit or meat in, it goes off in the fridge too quick.
Fruit apple and kiwi fruit..2 birds about 1/10 slice every 2 days and 1/1 of a kiwi fruit (note most people cut then across to eat...cut into vertical 1/2s or 1/4s )
Now caliuum..your shell /grit cuttle fish.....1st grit as such is a myth, capitalized on by bird seed packers to pack out and more profit of the seed...
And
Quote:
mix of grain - we bought a special for Australian/New Zealand parrots (barley, wheat and some smaller things i donīt know how to call them)

My call on that marketing/ propaganda BS ..How the heel is a particular seed mix going to suits species from cockatoos down to grass parrots like turqs and burkes......unless one owns a great variety of those species and what is not eaten by one species is eaten by the others...if u only have one species u then throw what is left over out and the shareholders get rich.

Get a cocketeil mix....much of the wheat/barley the Kakariki will not eat.
Now get a container that will hold 2 weeks seed in the bottom 1/3 of the container...the high sides stop them throwing it everywhere and wasting the mess allover the floor for u to clean up.
Then about every 7 to 10 days, shake he container and the husks float to the surface, skim them off with your hand and throw away....what is left is what they dont want to eat.....now keep in mind they have already pegged out on the sunflower and other 'nice' seeds in the 1st few days, and have been forced to eat the balanced veggie diet and eat the other seeds adding to a balanced diet.
Its like this....put a plate of ice cream and lollies with some veggies and meat in front of a child every night.....what will that child eat?
When they run out of ice cream and hungry, it will then be the next best thing a veggie or meat.....but have that ice there at every meal and the child will become hypoactive, over weight diabetic, loose teeth and need a dialysis machine....and eventually die off heart failure at an early age...

There is no magic food diet for certain species of parrots....yes some species require special stuff, grays with raw palm oil, other special clays...that the rare exceptions
?I have a breeding pair that dont touch sunflower..even I find that surprising, another pair just a little....another pair lover it, got to ration.
And the same goes for the kings crimsons turqs burkes quail cockteils.....but they all get the same overall diet and what one species and particular pair dont eat the other will.
Do u prefer the exact same food as you husband/ wife/ children/ parents/ friends no? our pets are no different, espec when given a consistent balanced variety over a long time.

Calcuim....all u need is cuttle fish and if u can source some pumice stone..be it a large piece or pumice sand with tiny bits in...
yes shell and stuff has calcium, but not in a form that they can absorb into the body....Calcuim comes in many forms, plaster of Paris powder..will kill the bird, plaster of Paris set, not an absorbable form, cement power, concret......dairy products yes but be careful as to much the fats become an issue..a treat not part of overall diet.
And the Califlower broccoli stems with the phosphors to let their body absorb the calcium.

Also read up on the apple cider vinegar and 50/50 vinegar addition ans spray used as a preventive to worms mites etc.....and also reported from a couple of highly respected breeders in Europe and Aussie...huge improvement in over all presentation and health.

Quick search block on the left.

Any thing u dont follow or have questions please ask....and keep us informed as to how things progress over the months
Cheers
Steps.

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Last edited by Steptoe on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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lahvik
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Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject:

Hi, Steps,

thank you so much for such a fast and full reply. I will read it over and over again and try to do all those things you have suggested.
Just one more thing... The main issue was to make our Darwin kakariki stop laying eggs. I think she is much more sad and less active these days, of course i think it is normal in the period when she is sitting on eggs. However, i was thinking about removing the box where she sitts on eggs from the cage and remove all the eggs and try to make all those changes in feeding her. I am just afraid - is it ok? Won't she be too despaired after she looses her eggs she was taking care of? I think she might be, however she will be anyway probably, as in some... weeks? ... she realizes the eggs are not gonna hatch. What would you suggest? Is there a bigger chance to let her keep on trying to sit on eggs till the moment she gives up or is it better to remove the box and eggs and try to make the laying stop simply putting her on diet?

Thank you for the answer in advance.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The main issue was to make our Darwin kakariki stop laying eggs

Removing eggs NO!
Bit of background..ever had a chook house in the back yard....the chooks keep laying to fill the nest so after 10 or 12 days they can sit and start to incubate them.....throuble is people keep taking them away....
The same for comerical bird breeders......
The hens lay eggs dont sit ..... and the breeder takes them away and puts them on a consistant cool temp shelf....then when it gets to about 10days from the 1st egg they all go in the incubator to hatch within hrs of each other....in the mean time the hen is still laying more eggs.

So u see what removing the eggs does....makes things worse.
My advise is to let here sit....and recover...eggs take a lot out of the hens...no pun intended there.....
She will sit for 3 to for weeks when she will relise they are not going to hatch,...then may or may not start to lay again....hopefully after the next lot she will stop....
Winter is coming up in your part of the world and shorter days right?
Put her in a colder room and shorter daylight may help also

Now a question for u..I think u are the only member from The Czech Rep.
We have NZer friend who recently married a Czech lady and moved back to NZ....they said they saw a kakariki in a petshop once....how common are they over there?

Cheers
Steps

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lahvik
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:35 pm    Post subject:

Hi, Steps,

thank you again for the advice, I will keep the nest box for her in the cage and let her sit. It think now it has been about 10 days since she started to sit on the eggs. I will try to give her the food you suggested and hopefully in about 2 weeks she will give up and leave the eggs (in such case - how long should I wait till I remove the nest box and eggs from her cage?)

Quote:
Winter is coming up in your part of the world and shorter days right?
Put her in a colder room and shorter daylight may help also

Yes, winter is coming, nothing major in here, now it is about +3 degrees Celsius and usually it does not get often below -10 in winter. However in our apartment we have just one room, small hall and a kitchen. In the hall there is not enough room for her cage and in the kitchen she canīt be due to cooking, so we have to keep her in the room with us. However, we cover her cage around 6-7 pm usually, anyway now it gets dark pretty soon, about 4:30 pm. We have at least reduced the temperature of heating in the room, so it wonīt be too warm.

Quote:
Now a question for u..I think u are the only member from The Czech Rep.
We have NZer friend who recently married a Czech lady and moved back to NZ....they said they saw a kakariki in a petshop once....how common are they over there?

I am not sure Iīm the right person to answer this, I am not a fan of buying pets in pet shops, we purchased our kakariki from a private breeder. I think it is much better. However of course we go to pet shops sometimes, but I have never seen any kakariki in there. Nor heard of anyone who did. At least not in Prague. But in general kakariki is not so unknown here, we have few websites containing informations about kaks. And based on some discussions there, it looks like "many" people owns one. Although all people Iīve told about our kakariki were surprised, īcause theyīve never heard of kakariki. I will try to ask next time I visit some pet shop, if they get sometimes kaks.

Thank you.

P.S.: I will spend some time today with the dictionary trying to translate your first comprehensive answer. I thought my English was good enough, but I will have to search for many words. :) This time of year at work itīs boring mostly, so I will have plenty of time to do that. :)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I will spend some time today with the dictionary trying to translate your first comprehensive answer.

My sig says
Quote:
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'

A polite way of saying Im a little dislexic Shocked
Even I have trouble having dictionaries corect or get the right word, let alone choose the right one signlol
But I will edit the 1st post and see what I can do....

Your written Engilish is excellent....

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lahvik
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject:

I thought that you might be, but that's totally ok, I have read it all again today at work and understood everything. So no need to correct it. Better please advice what should I do when Darwin gives up sitting on the eggs and when should I remove the nest box and eggs then.

And thank you for the compliment about my English. :-)
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lahvik
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: After almost 4 weeks

Hi, some news..
It has been about 4 weeks now since our Darwin started sitting on eggs. Still sitting. During the process she threw out of the nest 2 eggs and did not care about them, so we removed them after some days. She has not laid another egg for about 10 days now, still just those 6 in the nest. She does not go out much, just few times a day to eat and if out of her cage, then only for some moment and she flies back quickly to check the eggs.
We started to give her some other food, like mix of broccoli, peas and salat, some apple...
How long do you think it can last till she gives up? And once she does, should we remove the eggs immediatelly or leave them in the nest for couple of days?

Thanks for any advice. And marry Christmas :-)
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject:

Sry missed your previous post....
Quote:
And thank you for the compliment about my English. :-)

Sry dont do compliments...I just state things as I see them..if good I say so if bad I say so Laughing
Which one doesnt really matter
or put it another way Im just a grumpy old school type of guy Wink

Quote:
still just those 6 in the nest. She does not go out much, just few times a day to eat and if out of her cage, then only for some moment and she flies back quickly to check the eggs.

Thats normal...eventually she will realise the eggs are not going to hatch, about 4 to 6 weeks...I was talking to a guy who breeds game pheasant and he mentios they will sit till the egg goes off...It isw not obvious but if one smells the the egg very close one can just distingish the smell..he showed me...I have no reason to think kakariki would be any different

When she gives up..be obvious, and as soon as you are sure, get rid of the nesting box and eggs...crossing fingures she will not lay again, and dropping room temp a bit may also help.

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lahvik
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: It's (hopefully) over

Hi, guys, just wanna inform you about recent news...
Our Darwin had been sitting on eggs for about 6 weeks, few days ago he kicked out one egg, so there were 5 remaining. The day before yesterday another one and yesterday another one and the other two he buried into the sand.
Also he was spending much more time outside and was acting very active, so we decided the time has come and removed the remaining eggs and the nest. Since yesterday Darwin spent about 6 hours outside of cage, enjoying every single part of our apartment. Seems very happy now. And of course so do we.
Now we just hope there won't be any new eggs.

Thank you for all the help and wish you all the luckin 2012!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject:

Cool, it seems everything is going to work at this stage.
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