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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Kakariki Stunned/shocked by a fight
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Kakariki Stunned/shocked by a fight
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Debz_g
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Kakariki Stunned/shocked by a fight

Hi
Could someone help me please? I am new to Kakarikis, I've only had them for a few months, got my first pair back in June and then brought two more at the weekend.

My problem is that one of the new Kakarikis has started to fight with what I believe is our older female Mildred. After a particularly bad run-in mid flight, she flew back into the cage into the nesting box. She hadn't come out for a while and when I opened the box I found her lying on her side (I thought she was dead at first). She was still breathing but it was rattling/wheezing. I have since taken her out and kept her warm, she can flap her wings but I think her legs are a bit wobbly. Her eyes were also rather strange as they were partially closed.

I am really worried about her. Does anyone have any advice please? I am dreading getting up in the morning and finding her dead.
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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject:

You have done all the right things by placing her in a warm area. The symptoms you have described could be caused through trauma and stress, or the bird may in fact have a respitory problem that has been made worse by the fight she had.

I have witnessed similar behaviour before in one of our hens. I accidently struck her on the back of the head while catching her with a net. The solid rim of the net made contact with her head and she fell to the ground. She could not move or fly for a few hours and I was preparing to take her to the vet when she suddenly recovered. That was about six months ago and she has since laid her first batch of eggs and is fine. So all is not lost. Keep a close eye on her for the next 24 hours and if there is no improvement I would seek advice from a vet.
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debbie
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: help

i hope you get this in time, you done the right thing with keeping her warm ,thats most important,a 40 watt light globe is good. now if you have allready a true pair male /female in the avairy , then go and add another bird or two ,you are putting strange birds into there (the first birds)domain. how would you like two stranges rockin up to your house uninvited and claiming your house? if it was me i would probley knock some one out to. Shocked not to mention if you have nest boxes and mabey your first pair is trying to breed. i use one pair per avairy approch.your little bird is in shock keep her warm and try and get some baby bird food into her.dont put her back in the avairy odds are it will happen again.
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Carol
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject:

Hi Debz_G
Your doing the wright thing I wouldnt try and feed her I would just have her food and water where she can get it. I agree with Kaka-riki keep an eye on her and check with a vet if she doesnt improve. I have a kak which Knocked herself out it took a few hours but she is fine, I hope everything goes well.
Carol
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Debz_g
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:59 am    Post subject:

Thanks very much for your replies. I am currently at work and dreading going home.

This morning she was still with us, able to attempt to fly a little but very unsteady on her feet. She seems to have lost her sight in both eyes and leans to one side. When I hold her she clings on as if on a perch so there is still some strength there but she doesnt have the energy to bite me properly (Not that I want her to...well only if it meant she was better).

She has lost her tail feathers and whilst this has happened before, it seems different this time, there seems less of her and I am unsure if she has lost weight (she isnt too tame yet, more stand-offish than the male).

I am waiting until I get home and if there is no improvement then hopefully I can find a local vet who knows what they are doing. Part of me wonders if she has been sickening for something for a while as she started to snap a little at her mate a few weeks ago (I came home to find it like a bloodbath where I assume she had gone for his foot - thank god for this website or I wouldnt have known how to stop it bleeding).

As for the other two new birds, I am certain at least one of them is male, but undecided on the other. Will try to upload pics at some point. Despite knowing very little about them, I think I know more than the pet shop I got them from! Don't think thats a good thing actually!

Thanks again x
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I think I know more than the pet shop I got them from! Don't think thats a good thing actually


But unfortunatly far to common.

Which method did u use to stop bleeding? There are several listed here.

Steps

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Debz_g
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:19 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Which method did u use to stop bleeding? There are several listed here.


I used flour to stop the bleeding, which I would never have thought to do that. Thats how I stumbled upon this website, I had been trying to stop the bleeding by just holding a cloth against his foot and couldn't understand why it wouldn't clot, so I hoped there would be something somewhere on the Internet.

Unfortunately Mildred died this morning, perhaps she heard I was going to take her to the vets before work! The poor girl certainly tried to hold on, she had even opened one of her eyes and was even walking around more than she had. I think what finished her off was she fell from a pillow last night (on the floor, so from no height) and I think she banged her head. Afterwards I held her to calm her down, and she did, I think despite her nervousness when she was in full health, I think at that point she realised that I wasn't actually going to hurt her and that I was trying to help. She even fell asleep on my chest.

I am almost sure that it wasn't the fight that caused it, I think she must have been coming down with something a while back as she did become moody with Monty. My Nan seems to think that other birds can sense illness and try to put them out of their misery...not sure how true that is.
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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:04 am    Post subject:

Hi Debz_g

Sorry to hear that your bird died. Your Nan is correct in saying that some animals do drive away those in their group/flock that are sick or weak. I have never seem that happen with Kakariki but even Kakariki have individual personalities so it is possible that your new birds pushed out the sick hen.

It sounds like you did everything in your power to help the bird and that shows that your remaining birds are in great hands.
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Debz_g
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Thanks

Thanks very much for your kind words. I miss her a great deal, she wasn't as cheeky as her mate Monty, but she certainly had her own personality. I don't think I fully appreciated this until she was on her last legs... she was independant to the last!!

It's weird, but after having a few days to grieve (you could see in his eyes how sad he was, he seemed to lose the orange ring around his eyes), Monty has come along in leaps and bounds. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts to talk soon as he has learnt to mimic the tone/syllables of what I am saying or whistling to him. He can only really manage one or two syllables at the moment, but he certainly tries, but he has to pause to think about it! Not sure why this has happened after losing Mildred, perhaps he was under the thumb a bit and told to be quiet.


Last edited by Debz_g on Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Debz_g
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject:

Just thought I would attach a picture of Mildred.


Mildred.JPG
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Mildred.JPG


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debbie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: loss of bird

debz,
sorry to hear about your bird ,you did well. i just thought i might add when a bird has no food in its crop you can feel the breast bone quite clearly and when a bird is eating properly where that breast bone is feels puffy to touch, i have been into birds for over 20 yrs and one of my best friends is one of western australias finest aviculturists, i dont profess to know every thing cause i dont, theres always more to learn or mabey even a better way to do something.i do sort of agree with kakariki about dont try to feed her as she would have stressed out but in my appinion after 8 hours of not eating or drinking you know if it keeps going that way your going to end up with a dead bird any way, so personaly i would of taken the chance and fed her. it is up to the indevidual what steps they take,but as long as you have the birds best intrest at heart thats what matters.
i hand rear baby birds all the time for other people, some of who have no idea, some people bring me birds i have to get well again because of stuppid mistakes they have made Crying or Very sad it is heart breaking ,but hey its people like yourself and others on this site that make it worth it angel
debbie
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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject:

Debbie,

One of the biggest issues to deal with in a sick bird is knowing exactly what the problem is. A birds natural instinct is to eat when it is hungry. Even a very sick bird will try to digest food unless there is a reason for it not doing so. Using that theory one could safely assume that any bird not prepared to take food of it's own accord is probably doing so due to an internal issue with one or more of the vital organs. Therefore, force feeding the bird may in fact be causing more harm than good. If the internal organs have shut down you run the risk of solid foods becoming sour in the crop in a similar way to what can occur when handraising young birds.

Our own avian vet has always fed liquids via the crop or injection to birds that are not wiling to feed themselves. Once the bird is well enough they will resume eating fresh foods and seed of their own choice. Only then are the liquids stopped.

My advice is to always seek medical advice as soon as practical but if there is a need to feed a sick bird I would suggest liquids are far safer than solids. A syringe to the side of the mouth will work if you are not confident using a crop needle.
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debbie
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: feeding a sick bird

thanks for the come back on that, like i said you learn something every day. were i said after 8hrs i would take the chance and try to feed the bird anyway, the mix i use is nearly as runny as water and only minamal amount and i did ring my avian vet first and he did tell me what could happen,like what you have said,but fortunatly the birds that did need me to intervein did survive .
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Been thinking about this feeding thing...
If we are sick in hodpial, they withold food and feed introveiniously...
Same principle right?

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Kaka-riki
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject:

Yes Steps you are correct. Most avian vets will tell you that birds are one of the most difficult animals to treat due to size and also their ability to mask illness for such a length of time.

Not knowing what the problem is usually results in vets taking the safer option of feeding fluids via the crop in the first instance. This assists in keeping the birds strength up while tests are performed without the danger of solids souring in the crop.

There are exceptions to every rule and everyone has their own opinions on what works for them. I am only passing on the comments of how our particular vet handles birds that refuse food. At least that way members have some additional information on hand.
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