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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - advice please this is complicated!
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advice please this is complicated!
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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:34 am    Post subject: advice please this is complicated!

Hi all

ok this gets a bit complicated so I hope I can make it as clear as possible as I really need some advice!

ok we have an aviary out the back which is divided down the middle by wire mesh, we had a pair in each side and lost a male on one side (freak accident) and a female on the other side, she started fitting and died soon after :'(
we believed that the two kakarikis remaining would fight if put together as they showed hostility towards each other when they had respective partners. so we got them both a new partner each from a local breeder, the 2 'original' kakarikis have now decided they fancy each other and the original female flaunts herself to the orginal male. the new male and female also appear to have taken to one another and the new male is feeding the new female through the mesh, he is also feeding the 'original' female who is tolerating him ok most of the time now odd chase but nothing too aggressive. The new male is still young and does not know how to erm....satisfy his female shall we say although she is nesting without eggs! (she had the box from the original pairing and gets very depressed if she has nowhere to hide!) she took over the quail nestbox when we attempted to remove it and the quails were getting no peace so her nestbox was returned to her.

The issue we face at the minute is the new female kakariki has laid eggs (she's 6 months +) we doubt these are fertile as she has been flaunting herself at the older male since we got her and we have never seen him mount her! she also flaunts herself at the guy next door. so as i said we doubt they are fertile, however if they are and also in general as she is incubating them we were looking for some advice.
The male she is with dies NOT feed her EVER! she gets food from the male next door at her leisure, if she whines he is there in a flash!
the question is: should we be pairing the opposite males and females up? is so should we wait until she realizes these eggs aren't viable or till we know for sure they aren't??

any advice greatly appreciated as if she hatches these (very slim chance!) then she will have to leave the nest to 1) feed herself or 2) be fed through the mesh by the other male!

thanks

Mandy
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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject:

that should say the male DOES not feed her ever, sorry typo and didnt know how to edit original post ***
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:24 am    Post subject:

Swapping around now could cause alsorts of terroritial havac...

We have internal rather external doors between out flights...If it was in our avairirs, I would just open all the doors and keep feeding each flight separate.....And supply enough nesting boxes plus at least 1 extra.
Nesting boxes xhould not be in eye sight of each other and at as a great a distance as possible.
There will be a few breif squabbles every now and again.

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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:49 am    Post subject:

thanks steptoe :) should have said we have an internal door between teh flights. Will see how it goes for another week or so as we have baby zebra finches in one side at the minute, will keep an eye though and probably take up your suggestion once they have been removed :D thanks again!!

mandy
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject:

Quote:
should have said we have an internal door

most ppl dont...

We have done this same exerise with kings, quail, turqs mixed in with the kakariki....it is as iff the other species dont exist to the kakariki.

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cheekykiwi
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject:

we based our aviary flights on yours and the advice you gave :) hence having one.
see ur advice pays off :)

thanks again steptoe this website has been a lifesaver :D
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject:

Hi,

I have observed my kakariki.

Back in time I saw a couple fight twice, probably due to jealousy. A male and female in the same flight beat up each other real hard. I was ready to step in but all of a sudden they stopped.

5 mins later the cock was feeding the hen and right after they had some "fun" together.

That happened at least 2x in front of me with the same pair. And they raised chicks successfully.

Like Master Yoda would say, strange and unpredictable birds kakariki are, my young padawans.

Have a nice weekend!

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Hi,

I have tried this year to bread in the avary with 4 pairs of kakarikis and at lease 12 nesting boxes. The result was zero, a lot of fighting and trouble.
So I took the desion to remove al nesting boxes and there was pease again.
Then I have put each pair to a seperate nesting box, see pictures in my breeding house next to the avery.
The result, 39 chicks.
Each breadingbox can countain 2 nestbloks, so the hen can choose.
When there are chicks born and 5 weeks old, the hen lays the new eggs in the second nestblok. The chicks from the first nestblok where putting out of the breedingbox to the avary, when the can feed alone at an age of 8 to 9 weeks.Then I clean the fist nestingblok and put it back in the breadingbox.
If the condition from the hen and the male it allows, they may breed for the third thim. If not then I select a new pair kakarikis to breed.
Here in Europe we mostly use this kind of breeding boxes. (See pictures)


So you have a maximum result in less time.

P.s. The chicks from the first, second and third nest which has gone to the avary, where also feed by other older kakarikis, even by brothers and sisters and socialized in the hole group.
I think it's very importand to socialize kakarikis with each other as group.



breedcage1.jpg
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breedcage2.jpg
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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject:

pabloc wrote:
Hi,

I have observed my kakariki.


Like Master Yoda would say, strange and unpredictable birds kakariki are
.

Think kakarikis strange and unpredictable ????
Each bird has his own personalty, I can see , recognize and prelude each of my birds and theyre behaviour.
Theyre personality is responsable for the peeking order in the group.
Now at this time i have about 60 kakarikis in my avary d'oh!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject:

That is damn near exactly what we should be doing in NZ...if it wasnt for DoC....

We have breed in flocks sort of suceesfully...with established flocks of several yrs...it is unrelable and hasstle.
We have other breeders in Nz who have breed in flock avairies , but these are huge zoo type whole school classroom walk in size...and thu they do breed but not at high rates.

And Peter I fully agree agree on all your comments , methods and substantuate what we have found..
Thu we have waited till just as the iris forms to put into the community flight...
Quote:
P.s. The chicks from the first, second and third nest which has gone to the avary, where also feed by other older kakarikis, even by brothers and sisters and socialized in the hole group.

Havnt tried that...gess what we will be doing this yr...
Do you wait till they have full flight after coming out of the nest or when they are still flapping around?

Could you give details of breeding cages sizes. layout netbox size please.?
Do you find a difference in mutations choosing m8s, agressiveness and abity for young to be accepted into the flock, as against 'wilds'

Quote:
I think it's very importand to socialize kakarikis with each other as group.

This is something DoC have no idea of, and with several DoC ppl visting here, observing, I believe they are slowly 'coming around' to this beleif.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject:

Hi

first of all congratz to Peter for 39 chicks, excellent breeding results.
Peter, you should participate more, and upload pictures, etc... so many of us that are starting could learn a bit more.
Those breeding cages are wonderful, this is the post where Peterl. explains about them.
http://www.kakariki.net/ftopicp-6737-.html#6737
Unfortunately the pictures are not hosted anymore by photobucket.

When I say unpredictable, is that they have very surprising behavior sometimes, at least for a newbie like me. I'm very new at breeding and keeping this birds, and they are no ordinary.
Cockatiels it's easier for me to know who are the more dominant, aggressive cocks and interpret their behavior. Kakariki it's still more difficult (only 2 breeding pairs, plus some chicks)

Yes, I agree colony breeding isn't very successful. It's happening to me with cockatiels. I have had 12 chicks out of 6 breeding pairs of cockatiel, and they are not even trying a second clutch.
Although I must confess I think the diet wasn't good enough to encourage the birds to breed (mea culpa).
But... I think it's reasonable to at least try colony breeding and note the results.
I think Steptoe has a point regarding established vs. new flock when colony breeding.

Another issue of colony breeding is pedigree, it's not reliable to determine the origin of the chicks.
Eclectus are known to be poligamous, same as cockatiels, and I would think kakariki not being very loyal to their couple if they have a chance to have fun.

bye

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject:

Kakariki pair off, and thats it.

Quote:
Unfortunately the pictures are not hosted anymore by photobucket.

This is why we encourage people to use tha add attachment at the bottom of the reply...
But please do not hot link to other sites.
Open pic in a pic reasonable pic editor...download infran google it
chop out any background not relievent
resize longest side to about 550 pixels
'save as' jpg choose opitions and set about 25%
save.

The server has issues uploading very large files and edittin them down automatically....remember the server is just an old office machine sitting under the desk here.

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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject:

Somethimes says a picture more then words s05


breedbox.jpg
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The lengt of the breeding box is 1 meter, 50 cm high and minimum 50 cm depth.
On the floor are two faeces trays, on the right there is a door and on the front there is also a valve door.
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breedbox1.jpg
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The nestbloks are 35 cm high, 25 to 25 in length and dept. On the side the is als an inspecting door. The hole is now 65 mm in diameter.
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breedbox2.jpg
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breedbox3.jpg
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The whole breading area
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avairy1.jpg
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And this is de avary area with some birds
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avairy2.jpg
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On the left you can see an supporting door The black wires are fences against the stupid cats here in the neighbourhood.
On the left you can see the feeding valve.
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electbox.jpg
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I also have make an electrical box where i can dimming the lights and temperature in de breading house and avary.
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electbox2.jpg
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The papers on the electrical box are the breeding results with the parends.
This got on the PC in een breading program.
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electbox2.jpg


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Peterlimburg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject:

Steptoe wrote:
Do you wait till they have full flight after coming out of the nest or when they are still flapping around? Do you find a difference in mutations choosing m8s, agressiveness and abity for young to be accepted into the flock, as against 'wilds'
Quote:
I think it's very importand to socialize kakarikis with each other as group.
This is something DoC have no idea of, and with several DoC ppl visting here, observing, I believe they are slowly 'coming around' to this beleif.
The chicks are indeed flaping around the first days, but they also nibbel also eggfood and spray millet.
When i do the chicks in the avary, they all come looking, there is no agressiveness to the young ones.That is the differens between chicks and the older birds. If you put an older bird in the group then there wil maybe a little struggel in the peeking order for a few ours our days.
Mostly the mutiations, goldchecks seek each other, also the wilds do it .
The kakarikis can doing what they want, but i choose the couples , i select a male and a female and bring them together in the breadingbox .So i always now who the parends are of the chicks. On the PC i can look who is family or have the same bloodline.

pabloc wrote:
Hi

first of all congratz to Peter for 39 chicks, excellent breeding results.



I have waste a lot of time to breading in the avary as kolonie, result zero.

For example the breadingbox:

(6 koppels) x (3 nests) x(7 eggs more or less) =126 eggs

from the 126 eggs survive 70% then you have about 88 chicks.

Each nest contains about then 5 surving chicks.
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Peterl.

you have really nice facilites.
Superb!

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