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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - I want to learn about mutations
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I want to learn about mutations

 
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Bertman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:10 pm    Post subject: I want to learn about mutations

I am trying to understand the differnet sort of mutations of kakarikis. I know what a cinamon is/looks like, I am beginning to get an idea of what a pied bird is, bit it is difficult to learn more about it because people who know about it just use the terms, such as mottled, recessive, (double) split, etc. :?: Think I have posted some questions asking for information but maybe in the wrong forum. Can anyone please tell me where to get information about this subject, I want to get some birds but am not quite sure what sort. thank you
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject:

Check out some of the albums in the gallery, and older posts.
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Bertman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: mutations

I have done some homework/research and learnt quite a bit, but am still not sure about the difference betweeb a recessive and a dominant pied. Can someone explain that to me please?
Is it correct that there are no dominant pieds in Austaralia?
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Bertman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Does this apply to kakarikis as well?

I got the following from a website on budgies. I was wondering if the same thing applies to kakarikis ( or any other spiecies for that matter)

"Dominant pieds have the spot on the back of the head, and white or yellow flight feathers (the long wing feathers). If those are the only pied markings they have, the bird is called a "clearflight". The blue and white budgie is a clearflight. But others, like the budgie to the left, have a horizontal band of white or yellow color across the belly. When you see a clearflight or a bird with that color band across it's belly, you know it is a dominant pied. To see another example of a dominant pied, check out the wallpaper at Budgerigar Heaven"

There are other pieds which do not have these characteristic markings; those are called recessive pieds.
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject:

Hi Bertman,

Below a pic of a Clearflight and underneath a pic of what I believe it is the dominant pied equivalent in Kakariki.
The Clearflight budgie is first established in Belgium and only showed a few pied feathers on flights and tail. The pic below shows the standard form of a clearflight but many often the expression can vary from just a headspot to pied on the flights, chest and tail. Also the size of the pied markings can vary.

The clearflight seems to be a selected form of the Dutch pied because they both interact with the Danish pied. Matings with the latter mutation results in a clear pied bird.

There seems no difference between double factored (DF) and single factored (SF) birds.
A mating of a DF Clearflight with a normal bird results in SF offspring. In practise, there are offspring which have no pied markings at all. So, sometimes the dominant factor behaves recessive.

Take into account that the colour of the face of a budgie has nothing to do with pied.



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Kokoko
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject:

Here is a link to a very good site on avian mutations.

http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/kbush/pletgenetics.htm

Realize that a mutation with the same name in different species, is different. So the basic info on genetics at this site can explain much for any species, but the specifics for parrotlets applies only to parrotlets (i.e. pied in one species may inherite through the same mechanism, but the visual effects are not necessarily the same).

Recessive - the bird must recieve this trait from both parents to visually show the trait.

Domminant - the bird need inherit this trait from only one parent to visually show the trait.

Complete Dominant - a bird that inherits from only one parent looks the same as a bird that inherits from both parents.

Incomplete Dominant - a single factor bird (that inherits from only one parent) looks intermidiate between a normal and a double factor bird (that inherits from both parents). So sometimes there are three distinct visuals (normal, single-factor, double-factor), and sometimes it seems like a continum from normal to double-factor, depending on the species and the nature of the trait in that species.
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UKKAKS
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: lutino kakariki

I have five red fronted chicks in the nest at the momment, the parents are a recesive pied cock and a cinnamon pied hen, who looks like she might turn out to be a motled as she is developing strange wing markings. Previous rounds of chicks have developed in to recesive pieds in normal and cinnamon and normal pieds in normal and cinnamon, but this round of chicks has surprised me by giving me one chick that has no markings including the red cap (pure yellow) and this bird has bright red eyes. Has anybody seen this happen before, early signs show that the chick is a hen, as soon as she has left the nest I will post some photos. Wink
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: lutino kakariki

UKKAKS wrote:
but this round of chicks has surprised me by giving me one chick that has no markings including the red cap (pure yellow) and this bird has bright red eyes. Has anybody seen this happen before?


Hatchlings with bright red eyes can be Fallow or Lutino. Fallows have a greyish down while Lutino's have a white down. Both have pink feet.
A yellow cap means that the parrents are not pure Reds (Hybrids).
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Bertman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Thanks guys

Thanks Koko and Peter, i much appreciate your help. i am getting on top of it the subject now. Applause
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UKKAKS
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: hybrids?

Thanks Peter, I know the hen is a pure red but the cock bird is mainly yellow so it is hard to say as his head has no green on it, although the rest of the chicks I have bread from this pair all look pure red.

Does anybody have an opinion on the so called par-blues or red suffesed birds. I would like to know how long it would take to develop these birds and how intensly you would have to breed to do this. Some birds do have more blue on the wings than others but to develop this throughout the bird would take generations. Think
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Peter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: hybrids?

UKKAKS wrote:
Does anybody have an opinion on the so called par-blues or red suffesed birds. I would like to know how long it would take to develop these birds and how intensly you would have to breed to do this. Some birds do have more blue on the wings than others but to develop this throughout the bird would take generations. Think


I don't think that you can come to a blue bird by selection. It is true that some birds have more blue on the wings, but this is just genetic variation. To become a blue bird, all psittacine (red and yellow) has to be removed. This can only be done by a mutation of a gene which plays a part in the production or distribution of psittacin. When this gene is defect, psittacin can't reach the feathers. A possible blue would look about like the one below.

Red suffused birds, on the other hand, are in my opinion susceptible to selection. Progress can only be done by paring those birds with the most red.



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