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norma
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Joined: Aug 14, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:39 am    Post subject: info

Hi How do you tell the different between Double factor dom pied cinnamon, and Dominate pied cinnamon, as young . norma
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Peter
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Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:56 am    Post subject:

Hi Norma,

The only way to find out whether your bird is Single factor or Double factor is to pair him/her up to a normal. In case your bird is DF, then all of the offspring is pied. When he/she is SF, then 50% is pied.

There is no visual difference between a DF and SF. That's why it is called dominant. Wink
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norma
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Joined: Aug 14, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject:

HI Peter Thankyou very much, the genetic make up must be something like ringnecks, I am a ringneck breeder for some 16 years now, but since i have seen the pieds KAKA they look quiet good, i have my first pair pied cinn/bec both birds, so there is a big problem with the young all possibles. Some are showing a little yellow feathers here and there, but nothing like the parents, except for one showing yellow rump and tail. I thought this might have some sort of genetic make up of the bird, will they moult out into something better, remembering the parents are only cinnamon pieds/bec.

The new ones i have comming are Yellow blackeye clear cock <clean no split> x green pied/bec, hen <showing plenty of yelloe on the back and full yellow tail> THey should turnout bec and pieds and split pieds, can you tell me what percentage they might be, and does the hen showing plenty of yellow have any input to the color outcome of the young.

regards Norma
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Peter
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Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 599

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:38 am    Post subject:

norma wrote:
the genetic make up must be something like ringnecks,

Yep, if I'm not mistaking 99,8% of the genome of all parrots is identical. The remaining 0,8% make them differ from each other. Each mutation lies on the same place on the same chromosome in every specie. The problem is that we often use different names for the same mutation as the specie.

Quote:
i have my first pair pied cinn/bec both birds, so there is a big problem with the young all possibles. Some are showing a little yellow feathers here and there, but nothing like the parents, except for one showing yellow rump and tail. I thought this might have some sort of genetic make up of the bird, will they moult out into something better, remembering the parents are only cinnamon pieds/bec.

To my knowledge only Mottle mutations moult out to better pieds. I guess that the parents have a 20% chance to produce Black eyed clears.

Quote:
The new ones i have comming are Yellow blackeye clear cock <clean no split> x green pied/bec, hen <showing plenty of yelloe on the back and full yellow tail> THey should turnout bec and pieds and split pieds, can you tell me what percentage they might be, and does the hen showing plenty of yellow have any input to the color outcome of the young.

Probably 50% will be full yellow or near yellow. The amount of pied will certainly have effect on the outcome. Dominant and recessive pieds have a cummulative effect. It means that they amplify each other when they are present in one bird.
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norma
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Joined: Aug 14, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject:

Hi Peter And at what age do you recomend to start breeding them,,
some people put them down at 6 months, my belief is the later the better, being new to KAKA`S i will be seeking as much info as possible.
regards norma
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Steptoe
Site Admin
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4517

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject:

If breed male or female at 6 months to a yr (male or female) the chances are fetility will be nil or very low
U can do so IF diet is considtant and 100% balanced ALL the time 2 to 3 times a day.
So its not worth it due to effort and lack of results

12 to 14 months even then fertility is often still low.
Kakariki chicks that are early in the season we will breed the next season, (about 12 months ) those late in the season, the season after.(about 18 months ) it is rare for use to breed an early season bird because we have enough older stock to select from

Quote:
will be seeking as much info as possible.

you will find the seach button above and "quick search" block to the left useful

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Cattscapes
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject:

Hi Guys sorry Steps i have to disagree. Norma is talking about my birds so i thouight i would throw my 2 cents worth in. I have been breeding them very succesfully for a few years now and i have had plenty of hens go down at 6 months and cock birds fill eggs at 5 months. I believe if you set your pairs up as young they will breed when they feel there ready. It also has a lot to do with the diet you give them. Mine get sprouted seed, beetroot, spinich, thistle, apples and ant other grasses i find around the yard everyday. As kakas love the sleep in there boxes its a bit hard to stop them when there ready. The mistake some people make is they hold them back to long, then wonder why the dont breed at all. As for the fertility i have always had a good gene pool to play with. When i first started with the pieds about 4 years ago the fertility was very low. Now it is not uncommon to have 8 to 9 fertile eggs in a nest. For example i have a hen that is rising 12 months. She is onto her 2nd nest which has 7 young in it and 4 fledged from the 1st nest. 1 off her babies from the 1st nest is the last 2 photos in my album. Cheers Kev
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I wpouldnt call that a disagree, the estentual part is DIET...

Quote:
The mistake some people make is they hold them back to long,

Thats interesting now u mention it, several times have take a kakariki male or female, never breed, and 2 or 5 yrs old and have trouble getting them going or even getting them to pair off...

Quote:
Kakariki chicks that are early in the season we will breed the next season, (about 12 months ) those late in the season, the season after.(about 18 months )

We dont have any issues

Though regardless of 6 or 18 months, the 1st batch have more eggs that dont hatch than 2nd batch...the younger, 6 months may only hatch 2 or 3 of 6 or 7 eggs....occassionaly none.

May not be fully related to age, breeding season here starts middle winter, have 3 pair sitting now, and our temps tend to be a litlle lower than yours.

Good to compare notes m8

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norma
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Joined: Aug 14, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Hi All its just that i have never heard of a young bird going down at 5/6 months, are the chicks of good size,??? being so young you would think the babies would be small in size.

I do not want to do anything that will be depremental to their well being of the birds

I have research all the green food nutrition, at the top of the list is
1 parsly which they don`t eat
2 kayle which is to expensive
3 brussell sprouts, which they devour
4 corn
5 spinach
6 celery nothing in it, only water
7 apple etc etc

tried beetroot, but they don`t like it
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4517

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject:

Everything about diet and kakariki

http://www.kakariki.net/ftopict-12.html

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norma
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Joined: Aug 14, 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Hi All About apple seeds , ithink its a load of rubbish too, when i put a apple in my ringnecks they go straight for the pips, they have been doing it for 16 years now, red or green apples. I grow my own Hawwian guava, they get this with corn, apples, peas, or broc, or mung beans, this is their wet mix to which i put 3 table spoons of lori wet or dry over the mix 27% protien, this is given 4pm and left until morning to clean out, it will go sour during summer months so best not to leave all day, 9 time out of 10 there is nothing left, they get this every day, hail rain or shine, as a treat they get celery leaves. I don`t give any worms, as this will only cause you to worm the birds out , if you want to worm out the birds give them plenty of greens, when you see sloppy crap, stop the greens, mother nature at its best.
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