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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - bald kakariki!!!!
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bald kakariki!!!!

 
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allie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:47 pm    Post subject: bald kakariki!!!!

i posted a question on here about 3 months ago concerned about the feather loss of my 1 year old hen ozzie. she had lost quite a lot of feathers around her head and i was reassured it was a normal moult. her head is now bald and i am really worried. she is in great form, flying and eating well, has a good diet, used this site to make sure she is getting the best of everything, anyone any idea on how long a moult lasts or how severe it can get? or could it be something else?
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Freddie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: bald kakariki!!!!

allie wrote:
i posted a question on here about 3 months ago concerned about the feather loss of my 1 year old hen ozzie. she had lost quite a lot of feathers around her head and i was reassured it was a normal moult. her head is now bald and i am really worried. she is in great form, flying and eating well, has a good diet, used this site to make sure she is getting the best of everything, anyone any idea on how long a moult lasts or how severe it can get? or could it be something else?


Try this:
-Cut toenails/claws so they are not long and sharp
-Use thick branches etc. so they donīt grow to long
-Good diet, but this u have
-Allow them to have a bath when they feel like it (helps to keep fethers in good state)

With a bad diet (mostley dry seeds) and possably not enogh minerals, they tend to have heavy moulting and feathers are loosley attached (come of easely), when they scrach themselves in the head with sharp toenails then they loose feathers.

It will grow back, donīt worry.

This is what I have notised in my Kakīs,
maybe there is some one with more experiance in the matter who can ad more!?
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:45 am    Post subject:

We have never had a bird go bald during molt, it most gets a little scruffy, espec if a female and has just laid and raised 5 batches of chicks.
They get good diet and eat very little seed.
We have on occassions 'resuced' kakariki where the prime to all of the diet has been seed, and have been negleted....in some cases near bald.
Treatment with invermectin drops (treats for worms and mite) on the neck & vinegar, weaning onto good diet. Within a week we see dramatic results, withing a month back to full health

Kakariki have longer toe nails than most other parrot species...I believe due to their nature to dig on the forest floor and rotten branches to get to grubs....the toe nails do get too long they bite then ends off, there is no need to cut nails....yes good perches are VERY important.
Toe nails are meant to be sharpe...notice when they run up the meash, acroos a meash roof, they do so without using their beck like all other parrot species. In the wild they do so up trees, they need sharp toe nails to do so.

If a bird goes into moult and has bald patches or excessivly scruffy, they ar lacking in minerals in particular Calcuim and Phosphourus...which means they are not getting a good, consistant, varied, balanced diet.
And could also be lacking in aromatic plants for pruning /mite, insect removal.
A kakariki in moult still looks normal other than notice a few pin feathers and loose feathers on the floor....anything more than that indicates diet or something is wrong.

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allie
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject:

think it might be her diet, have cut down on seeds and she is eating lots of fresh fruit and vegetables. in what way can i get calcium to her? and purchased herbs such as rosemary, mint and basil, what way should they be given to her? have ivermectine drops on way, using the vinegar already.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject:

http://www.kakariki.net/ftopict-12.html
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Freddie
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject:

All my Kak's are in perfect condition, due to good diet and supplements, so I never have heavy moulting, they breed good, wear down their nails as they shuold, are alert, healthy etc.

In thouse cases Iīve brought home a kak in bad condition - this heavy moulting, prolonged toe nails (much longer than normal due to having only small perches, required cutting of nails in my case), sluggish behaviour etc. , has been present.

[quote="allie"]think it might be her diet, have cut down on seeds and she is eating lots of fresh fruit and vegetables. and purchased herbs such as rosemary, mint and basil, what way should they be given to her? quote]

I germinate my seeds - they love it and itīs a boost 4 them.
Give them small twigs of thyme etc. and thy rubb their fethers with it, looks quite funny!
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject:

The last couple of times I saw one of my kikes for more than 1-2 weeks in non-optimum feather condition I administered 2 drops of ivermectine as a prevention.
As far as I know there is no harm of overdose if using ivermectine once every 3-4 months.

I dosed all my birds about 1 year ago, since then only needed to do so on 4-5 birds plus a few youngsters when they weaned and I transferred to a holding aviary.

Also noticed lately an improvement on condition after improving the feeding methods, diet and also giving aromatic herbs.

Cheers / Pablo

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
As far as I know there is no harm of overdose if using ivermectine once every 3-4 months.


yes there is..it is not approved for human use (nits worms etc) because of long term effects. Humans have a far longer life span therefore the culmative effects hit us before we die
It is also in most countries a prescription drug only thru vets because of over use with pets.
Do not worm or dose pets epec birds unles they actually NEED it
There is an older sticky thread on worms mites which includes detailed information from Brett Cartal and internationally know lecturer and researcher in vetinary science, and how to use a elcheapo kids microscope to check for worm egg in the droppings.
Also has pics to identfy the eggs and type of worms.
Microscope a couple small test tubes, salt water and a microscope slide.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject:

Ok, good to know that.
I didn't find any counter-indication or any information about long-term effects. Will review the posts written by Brett.

Thx for the heads up!

Cheers / Pablo

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject:

Old saying "prevention is better than a cure"
We have not dosed any of our birds (except those we have aquired and are isolated for several weeks) for maybe 6 yrs now, ever since we have used apple cider vinegar in the veggie mix once a week, and mist spray every 6 to 8 weeks the flights and birds with a 50/50 water and vinegar...malt white or spiced doent matter..whatever is in the pantry at the time.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject:

Hi Steps,

my concern is, my birds are in exterior aviaries, and eventually come in contact with other birds, mice, insects,...
Then my grandpa has a small chicken run 5 meters away from my birds with not much hygiene or proper husbandry. Everytime wind blows I'm sure it blows all kinds of stuff from the chicken run (dust particles containing parasites and bacteria probably).

And then I wonder if fungus/bacteria resistance in normal European kakarikis is the same as for certain stocks bred in NZ like for instance yours.
Your birds have unusual vigor, fertility and certain characteristics I feel I'm still far from, I'm still on my 3rd generation of kakariki, I think it will take me a few years to have a strong and vigorous strain of birds.

The average kakariki breeder here in Europe has 1-2 pairs and doesn't feed them any extra protein, they don't even pay attention to hybridization, let alone disease resistance, vigor, fertility.
My birds come from wholesalers so I believe chances are they come from this kind of breeder that has just 1-2 pairs instead of someone dedicated to the species.

That's why I prefer not to stand a chance and crop dose 2 drops of ivermectine before the birds could go downhill.
In my short experience the few times I used ivermectine in birds with bad feather condition there was a quick change, so I believe our kakariki may be prone to lice, mites, etc...

Cheers / Pablo

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:29 am    Post subject:

Quote:
my concern is, my birds are in exterior aviaries, and eventually come in contact with other birds, mice, insects,...

And so are ours
And in the wild they do and live to a good old age.
Why? because of their diet and build up of resistance to many things, which is only strong because of they get whats needed in the diet and enviroment (acids and aromatic herbs etc)

Now one can bred good birds in a stetile enviroment, but are weak in the real world....
Or one can make use of the other wild birds influence, use them to build resistance ...with good constant diet.

Quote:
And then I wonder if fungus/bacteria resistance in normal European kakarikis is the same as for certain stocks bred in NZ like for instance yours.
Your birds have unusual vigor, fertility and certain characteristics I feel I'm still far from, I'm still on my 3rd generation of kakariki, I think it will take me a few years to have a strong and vigorous strain of birds.


I see the same lacking vigor size etc of birds that we get in and sometimes what we send out....its not so much the 'strain; but how they are kept and raised from before the hen is paired up, lays eggs hatches , feeds the young and these will then be strong big vigor and resistant... maybe not perfect for a show bird...but thats where the breeding comes in.
They go hand in hand.

Do I wash veggies/fruit hell no That chicken left in the fridge a dat to long, bit suspect...give it to the birds, nps they have the dietry 'tools' to not worry them, vinegar and buffers their blood ph, and citric acid in fruit.
Dont forget in the wild they eat grubs out of the forrest mulch and rotting logs, eat dead fish washed up on the beach.

Your "concern " is an advantage if you want to make good use of it.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Hi Steps,

out of curiosity reading recently about European goldfinches a breeder mentioned their habit of eating certain acid and sour herbs to acidify their digestive tract (same effect as when we pour a dash of vinegar in drinking water and veggies).

I tend to agree with you with most of what you say.
The only thing is that I do wash is fruit and veggies that come from the shop (chemicals, dust, etc...), and also certain stuff that I pick up from the orchard mostly because of wild bird droppings.

Thanks for yet another great lesson of common sense and old school stuff.

Cheers / Pablo

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
out of curiosity reading recently about European goldfinches a breeder mentioned their habit of eating certain acid and sour herbs to acidify their digestive tract (same effect as when we pour a dash of vinegar in drinking water and veggies).


Its not just birds....take a young child in nappies 18 month 1 yr old.
Then give them a slice of lemon...they screw their face up, shudder from head to foot, get a great big smile (so long as those around remain 'neutal and do not influence), and eat the rest Shocked
Then when they are older, they are forever raiding the lemon tree.
And dont get sick.
This is assuming they have not aready been brought up on artifical sugar waters

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