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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - discoloured toe
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discoloured toe

 
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tiki
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Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:54 pm    Post subject: discoloured toe

Hi there,
I have slowly noticed that Tiki has a discolour at the end of his middle toe but tonight when he was out i noticed it is a bit swollen, it doesnt appear to be bothering him and he is using it for eating with no worries, not favouring the toe at all, would anyone have any idea of what this could be. He is going into Bird Boarding in a few months for a couple of weeks and dont want to take him in with anything that my be passed onto other birds.
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tiki
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Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:56 am    Post subject:

I took Tiki to the vets today and he has Gout!! (And no he hasnt been drinking, he's too young!) What has caused this is for the last 2 years from advice from another certified bird vet I have had Tiki on pellats and no seed, plus fresh fruit and vegies daily, but the pellats are very high in protein and thats what has caused the Gout Sad i have been told to put him back onto the seed, lots of green vegies, fresh fruit etc. This can not be cured but hopfully controlled with the right diet. I find this very dissapointing as i thought I was doing the right thing by taking the advice from a professional, i was told by her that seed is bad for your bird and shortens their life and causes all sorts of problems with them. The vet today said birds are meant to eat seeds, fruits vegies etc and if you change their natural habits you are going to get health problems, which is whats happened. Why is there so much conflicting advice out there. Rolling Eyes i just hope it has been caught early enough for it not have caused too much damage to his liver and shortens his life. On the up side he is still the same cheeky wee man that we love and I will do what it takes to help with his pain and diet
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RoboHip
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Joined: Jan 18, 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:34 am    Post subject:

Wow - that is scarey - mine too are on a pellet diet, with fresh fruit & veggies, with cooked chicken and bones too.

I'm having second thoughts now
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 4512

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I have had Tiki on pellats and no seed, plus fresh fruit and vegies daily, but the pellats are very high in protein and thats what has caused the Gout

I simply as..would you raise your children on vitimin tablets, artifial food?
And would you expect them not to have any health issues when they get older?

Quote:
very high in protein and thats what has caused the Gout

It is not the protien....it is artifial proceesed protein.

Pellets are fine....for those time when been busy, they havnt had the full variety of veggies fruits for a few days, and u think "Hmm been a bit slack, a couple pellets each to give a boost" which is no different to dropping a couple vitinuim tables cause u have been working long hrs, hant eaten well for a couple days, and lost that bounce in your stride.

We use a few Optimum cat pellets each every few weeks.

Quote:
Why is there so much conflicting advice out there. ......
What has caused this is for the last 2 years from advice from another certified bird vet I have had Tiki on pellats and no seed,


1/"Certified" does a quaification mean competence? nope
I have a very good friend who is a fully qualified advanced trade Fitter and turner...hes bloody hopless to say the least....but hes an increadable 'people person' he maybe hopless with his hands hes magic as the factory manger.
2/Certified doesnrt mean experianced..usually it means reading 'propaganda ' research from chemical/ petsuply companies which it so happens sponser Vet and medical schools at university...It is the nature of todays world, a degree or doctorate means yrs of hands on experimenting, expeiance, and plain old commonsence has no scientic value and therefore, illogically, worthless.
3/I suspect, please confirm If im correct..the vet has shelves full of articial feeds for cats dogs birds etc....Vets like Doctors, are not all about big hearts ..far too often these days its above seling product and profits.

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Gee
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Posts: 222

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject:

Yikes, gout... poor fellow!

Have you done some reading up on it?
If not yet, I can send you links to some ( I think are) interesting articles.
Gout is difficult to cure.. if not impossible. But, with the right diet, and lots of excercise , he could still have a long and happy life .
If you decide to read up.. try " purine" in your Google search box as well.

There are some herbs and types of veggies and fruit that can help him out.
But, as there are 2 different types of gout and various causes for it, you first would want to make sure you know what caused it.

See, malfunction kidneys and gout are connected. Kidney disease can be the cause of gout. Or gout can cause kidney disease.

Kidneys malfunction can be caused by several things: bacterial infections, mycotoxins, decreased water intake, diabetes, viral infection, and malnutrition (vitamin-mineral deficiencies) toxicity (over-use of antibiotics, for one), over use or lack of protein ( the later being called " poor man's gout) and stress.

Has the vet checked his protein levels?
Has she checked his droppings?
Or did the vet jump to conclusions once he/she heard you feed him pellets?
Because, although it seems to be the main reason in most cases.. it's not the cause in all. To treat him properly, you would want to know the cause for sure.
Veggies and fruit are a great way to feed a kakariki. But some veggies and fruit are better to be avoided in case of gout.
Where others are a must do to treat the gout.
Again.. look for info on purine.


Whatever caused it, and however you decide on treating it, make sure he get's lots and lots of exercise. Both to stimulate circulation and to generate thirst.
Water input and output ( kidney's) must be stimulated.
Excercise and the right diet could improve his health fast.

Changing of the seasons/ temp can cause pain . Specially when rainy or snowy.
If you have him outdoors, I would suggest bringing him in as soon as fall/ winter sets in.

I wish you good luck and lots of patience.. there is no instant cure.. but with a lot of patience and determination he can be helped.
Keep us posted. We can all learn from your experience.

:)!!!

Gee
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tiki
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Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject:

Steptoe, yes you are right...does qualified mean competent, i work in childcare and I have come across some Diploma train teachers and they should not be in the industry, i guess it goes with any qualification, just because you have the piece of paper doesnt mean you know it all, as for whats on her shelves to sell, yes it is all pellets, as this is a place that only deals with birds i do wonder if she is getting a discount on selling the pellets. What I am now concerned about is that we are going to NZ in August and I have booked him into bird boarding for 2 weeks and they only give pellets to the birds, what im going to do is give them a ring on monday and tell them that Tiki needs to be back on seed, i will provide the seed for them to give to him, but will they do it?, it is not cheap for him to be there, we are paying over $300 for the 2 weeks, so as a dietry requirement this is what he needs.
Gee, i have done a google search on gout in birds and have looked at what fruit and vegies he requires, yes I am going to have to be alot more vigilant in his diet and making sure he gets alot more excersise (he does and has always had a good fly time out of his cage everynight), he has a bath every second night (or when he wants one and he does let me know) so he gets a good work out with that too, what i am dissapointed in is that I have been very strong on not letting anyone feed him food etc that he should not have and yet what i was feeding him was causing him harm. He is still a very active bird (which is a good thing). The vet didnt check his levels as such but he didnt know that I fed him pellets and as soon as he saw his foot he told me it was gout and he said he hasnt seen that in a bird for 10 years, he then asked what his diet was thats when i told him he was on pellets plus fresh fruit and vegies, he said to soak his seed in water for a bit to make sure he was getting more fluid intake, but also to make sure that it was changed daily so it wouldnt furment, As Im writing this he is flying around the house and being a brat trying to get into trouble, trying to eat my fingers while im typing, and talking to me Laughing I'm hoping with the right care from us he should live to his full potential and be happy and hopefully pain free, I will for sure keep you posted on how he is going. Thankyou for your replies Laughing
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Steptoe
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Joined: Oct 06, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
What I am now concerned about is that we are going to NZ in August and I have booked him into bird boarding for 2 weeks

Coming to NZ......
If you would like to drop in for a coffee we are about 17 mins from Auckland airport...on the way South.

Week have someone to come in each day, feed water ..I make up enough chopped veggie for 3 to 4 days..in the fridge....
From then it is frozen peas frozen sweetcorn they pick up a packet of sprouts at the supermarket...throw in
And
Enoght seed in a deep box for 2 weeks
And clear the mail box at the same time

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tiki
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Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Steptoe a drop for a coffee in would be great if we were going to be in the north island, but we will be in the south, we are going to be in chch for 3 days to visit family and then drive up to Nelson for the rest of the time to be with my mother etc, we are also going out in a boat in the queen charlotte sounds etc, we are looking forward to having the time away. The only thing with someone coming into the house to feed Tiki is that he has to have time out of his cage, if he was cooped up in his cage for 2 weeks he would go stir crazy, with not having fight time or even his bath, so it would have to be someone very trust worthy and knows what they are doing with birds that are not your average budgie, i dont even know if people here do that, there are dog people but very hard to find bird people. But rest assured when we do come to the north island I will let you know Laughing
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