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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - my male kak is going bald but there are no signs of mites
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my male kak is going bald but there are no signs of mites
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dannyb123
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: my male kak is going bald but there are no signs of mites

my male kak is going bald but i dont know why there are no signs of mites as none of my other kaks re losing feathers i initially thought he was malting but there seems to be no feathers coming back can anyone shed any light on what the problem might be wall
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Gee
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject:

dannyb123,

I would like some more information on the bird to try help you out.
How old is he? Does he have bald patches all over or just on a certain part of his body?
Did you have a good look @ some of the lost feathers? If so, did you notice anything unusual compared with the lost feathers of the other birds you have?
What is his history? Did he have ( health) problems before, did you recently change anything big, like diet or environment?
Is he a pet bird kept indoors? Or in an aviary outside?

Molting is normal as long as there are new feathers seen and no real bare patches.

VERY roughly said bare patches could be:
- a sign of plucking ( self induced or by a cage mate)
- have a medical reason ( poor diet/ mites / stress etc)

The more info you give us, the better I/we can try help you.
Maybe post a pic as well?

Dutch greetings,

Gee
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dannyb123
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject:

Ok age not sure the pet shop we got him from said he was about 18wks so he must be about 24wks now he lives indoors with a female kak only his head is affected I looked at his feathers no abnormality that I could see I read up on what to look for in feathers if it was mites but no sign of them my female kak deffinitely rules the Roost but have never noticed her plucking him we tried quarantining him in his own cage but his feather loss seemed to get worse he isn't plucking himself as he couldn't reach the back of his head we clean out his cage on a weekly basis and change his bathing and drinking water daily we feed him on fruity parrot mix mainly stuff like banana raisins and a mix of seeds and we give him fresh fruit regulary I'll try and post a pic when he sits still long enough he like to run around his cage a lot think he's an acrobat hope this helps any more info you want don't hesitate to ask oh nearly forgot not a moult as there are no new feathers visible just skin
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject:

Look up (seach block on the left) invermectin
drop on the back of the neck for both birds and repeat about 12 days later.
Wash cages, and then mist spray the cages with 50/50 soln water and vinegar

Add every few days a little apple cider vinegar to their chopped veggies as a perminent part of the diet.

Dont always count on seeing mites.

The above should be done as a routine for any bird introduced or purchased.....reputable pet shops should do it before selling any bird
De mited and de wormed.

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May
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:46 am    Post subject:

Hi Danny,

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago with my 1st hen bird within the first few months of purchasing a pair from a local garden centre.... i followed Steps instructions (as above) and she did eventually re grow.... (think there might be some pics on here somewhere) the only thing id add is... be very carefull not to overdose on the iverthingy stuff ...i had a bout of loosing a few birds with similar simptoms and the vet said it could be down to kidney failure ...which may have been down to that... but...also may have been a cogenital thing as i only lost green birds and my BEC's were all fine.... The other thing i thought the feather loss could have been was from poor diet before i got the birds as they were only fed seed where i got them. As a matter of interest where did you get your Kakarikies, i dont live far from you.... in the Cotswolds!

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dannyb123
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject:

The bird in question was bought from letchlade garden centre but my other bird which I purchased from a breeder in tewksberry has no problems at all she's the picture of health so I dunno signlol
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject:

Mites can infest a whole flock, but its not uncommon just 1 bird to be effected...I think it may have something to do with type of mite, or even diet of some birds, maybe a high Vitb diet over long time could help prevent or even stop.
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Gee
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject:

Danny,

first of we are no avian vets. So, if you want to make sure, you'd better consult a vet. Sometimes you can send some poop wrapped in foil to do lab tests on. Cheaper than a consult and quick results.

Having said that, I have my concerns about the diet your bird is on.
There are a lot of different types of fruity parrot mixes but generally speaking they contain: dried raisins, banana, coconut, large nuts, maize, sunflower seeds, safflower, and peanuts.
Banana's are taste makers with empty calories, raisins are high on sugar, sunflower seeds are fat.
And a "smart" kaka only eats the goodies hoping you will throw the rest out and refresh the other day.

You give him even more sugar by offering him fresh fruits regularly.
Feathers are made of a substance called keratin, which is a kind of protein.
There are two types of proteins. Some foods like e.g. dairy products, meat, fish and eggs contain sufficient amounts of all the essential amino acids, they are known as first class proteins. Second class proteins contain only some of the essential amino acids. Vegetable proteins belong to second class.
Your bird needs both daily. Specially now.

I advice you to read up on this forum about kakariki diet.
There is a search box on the left here.

In a natural molt, the feather bud or follicle begins producing the new feather before the old one is completely shed. So, in a sense, the new feather gives the final push-out to the old one.
A plucked feather takes longer to grow back. Just because there is no new feather underneath waiting to pop out.

Poor diet and poor feathers go hand in glove together. But,even with a poor diet, almost always new feathers appear in a few days. They may be in poor condition.. but they are there.

So, If you are sure he is not plucked by his cagemate than, to me, the cause is internal.
Read up on a virus infection called PBFD just to make sure.
Treat the bird with invermectin like Steps said, again, just to make sure.
But don't overdo it.. IF the reason is indeed internal, the bird is weak.. and invermectin is a poison.

Give the bird extra protein ( hard boiled egg with crushed shell and all is a good source) and some time to recover, with a good diet and the invermectin treatment the bird should look better in only a few weeks from now. If he gets worse fast instead of slightly better soon then take him to a vet.

Hope this is of some help to you.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject:

A note on invermectin.
ALWAYS do the repeat and better still a 3rd.
Invermectin is sysmatic...that is it gets in the blood, and it poisons anything that bites the animal/bird..including many worm types.
Same way that rose spray kills bugs.
The 1st dose kills live mites/worms, then the remaining eggs hatch..
The repeat(s) ensure the newly hatched nasties also get piosoned before laying more eggs...hence the 10 to 12 day.

Also there are several of us how for one reason or another have screwed up, real bad....giving between 4 and 12 times the reconmened dose...and no effect on the bird.
I have dosed 2 and 3 times recommended dose of kakariki in VERY bad conidition over a very long time (yr or so) so bad a condition with worms and mites, they can at best give a half hearted flutter.
I have always used 2 drops since the above...just to make sure the drop has got down thru the feathers on to the skin.
I am not saying or recommending "OH fine to over dose ....." but rather we have we do, thats us, from our yrs of experiance.

BUT DO at least the 2nd dose...
Another issue is not doing so builds up stains of resistant mites and worms... a major issue now in farming, crops and our own human antibiotics etc.

The sugar issue..a personal veiw/ observation, we stay away from high sugar fruits like peaches, and fruits we as humans consider 'ripe'..except kiwi fruit and apples...
Another 'therory ' of mine..notice birds hit plums, perssimmon, apples, grapes, fusha berries, cherries, fejoas, gavava, strawberries, when on the tree, a few days before we would eat them?
All the above we have in our backyard.
Humans eat fallen fruit...or that fruit when shake the tree the fruit falls off.

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May
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:42 am    Post subject:

dannyb123 wrote:
The bird in question was bought from letchlade garden centre


The Hen I had with the same prob was ALSO bought from Lechlade Garden Centre ...........!!!!!

I found out they buy from dealers..... i asked for the number to try find out a bit about the history of my birds and turned out the guy was a rodent dealer and knew nothing about Kakarikies at all trying to tell me that the different colouring of the female was that males and females have different colouring............ she was actually a cinnimon!!!

They were selling BEC's as Lutinos for 120 quid a pair..... they said they would pay me 15 quid each if i wanted to sell any!!!

I go there quite often and they have had quite a few Kakarikies in, some of them look ok ..... but..........!!!! most of them the last time i went are deffinatley HYBRIDS.....!!! so whoever is buying them doesnt know what they are buying.

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dannyb123
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:57 am    Post subject:

so maby letchlade are buying inbred and possible poor standard birds that might explain a few things i know the manager of the pet area at letchlade she seemed to know what she was talking about but maby its not her buying them
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manders
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:59 pm    Post subject:

May wrote:
dannyb123 wrote:
The bird in question was bought from letchlade garden centre


The Hen I had with the same prob was ALSO bought from Lechlade Garden Centre ...........!!!!!

I found out they buy from dealers..... i asked for the number to try find out a bit about the history of my birds and turned out the guy was a rodent dealer and knew nothing about Kakarikies at all trying to tell me that the different colouring of the female was that males and females have different colouring............ she was actually a cinnimon!!!

They were selling BEC's as Lutinos for 120 quid a pair..... they said they would pay me 15 quid each if i wanted to sell any!!!

I go there quite often and they have had quite a few Kakarikies in, some of them look ok ..... but..........!!!! most of them the last time i went are deffinatley HYBRIDS.....!!! so whoever is buying them doesnt know what they are buying.


Very few bird keepers actually know there are two species, even experienced bird keepers. We sold several off this year and each time i try to explain to prospective buyers there are two species it just goes over their heads and they think you just mean they are different colour variations.

Same with other parrots, since the import ban many parrot species are becoming hybridised because bird keepers just dont care about keeping different species separate.

My suspicion is that nearly all kakarikis sold in the uk are of hybrid origin simply.

Anybody know when the last import of genetically pure birds was? 1950's or later?
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May
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:02 am    Post subject:

dannyb123 wrote:
so maby letchlade are buying inbred and possible poor standard birds that might explain a few things i know the manager of the pet area at letchlade she seemed to know what she was talking about but maby its not her buying them


I have talked to them there quite a lot and all the staff seem nice ... they seem to know quite a lot in general ... but i think have been told some porkeys by dodgy dealers.... thats my opinion... i sort of want to tell them... but not sure how Anxious "erm.....sorry .... but your birds are crap" Anxious sounds a bit harsh...!!

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dannyb123
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:06 am    Post subject:

Yeah that does sound a bit harsh but I suppose you could say listen your birds are lacking in the quality department you need a new supplier
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May
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject:

yeah signlol..... that sounds a bit better.... i do feel i should say something considering the amount of birds they had there ... not ringed and obviously hybrids.... maybe they need to be prepaired to pay a little more for good stock.

how is your baldy bird doing anyhow?

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