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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - Tommie and Pukkie
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Tommie and Pukkie

 
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Steffie
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Tommie and Pukkie

Hi all! Wink

As I had told before Tommie and Pukkie had six eggs.
The 24th of September is born the first one, at 27th of September is born the second one and at 29th of September is born the 3rd one.

Pukkie protects here kids very good, that's the reason why i won't give this babies a ring. Pukkie won't go out of here litter, she attacks me when I go with my hand to far in her litter... but that's ok, she is a good mother.

I'm worried about the second kakariki. He/she is not grown (ehm, not so far I can see...) since he/she is born. This week I saw that this kakariki have spread legs. I want to help him/here, but Pukkie don't give me a chance.
Yesterday I saw this kakariki was feeding very well too. Do you know why this little kakariki don't grow? At the pictures you can see how little he/she is.

The pictures aren't great, because I won't disturb Pukkie and her kids.

I hope you know what I can do for the little one!

NOTE MOD.: sorry Steffie, i wanted to size down your pics but somehow i messed up with the 3rd pic. I' ll send it to Steps to have it posted back again. SORRY!!! Gee



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first young
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first and 2nd young. The one that won't grow
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IMG_4715.jpg
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mother with chicks
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May
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject:

in the 2nd pic the small chick looks fine...... but i was definatley shocked to see the last pic it is soooo small! and yes the legs are splayed..... i dont know why it hasnt grown..... maybe its not getting as much food as it should ..pukkie might think there is something wrong with it and not give it as much food.... or the others might demand more food ..... im not sure ......

you can have a go at fixing the splayed legs. some times they get sort of squashed by the hen sitting a bit too tight on the babies... or the other chicks leaning on the smaller one. you can make some "foam pants" to hold the legs in to where they should be but you have to do it early enough before their bones harden up..... i had to do it foe one of mine a few years ago but she was a few weeks older. basically you cut 2 leg holes in a peice of foam sponge (like a makeup sponge or washing up sponge) so that when the legs are through it pulls them in about half way to where they should be. you leave this on all the time and as they grow they should come right.... you need to keep them clean and im not sure how pukkie will take it... she might not like it...

have you thought of taking the little chick out and hand feeding it?

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Pukkie protects here kids very good, that's the reason why i won't give this babies a ring. Pukkie won't go out of here litter, she attacks me when I go with my hand to far in her litter... but that's ok, she is a good mother.


Then just leave her alone..dont be temped...having such a defensive (not unusual for a 1st or 2 batch) hen can result in accident damage to chicks.

kakariki are prolific breeders....so we accept defects as part as nature and let nature takes it caorse, rather than fix
Defects can be due to a devaloping generic issue which is a good idea not to promote...hence we dont fix..as the generations and yrs (decade) have turned over we have found the number of defects is well below 1% overall now....or for the last few yrs zero.
Just a thought and therory which a bit of experiance thrown in.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:23 pm    Post subject:

I was reading a few weeks ago an article on poultry, several topics like breeding, selection, culling...

It strongly advised against helping chicks that were not able to hatch. The reason... hatching is the 1st culling point. Any chick with not enough vigor to hatch... off it goes.

Babies... it doesn't sound nice, but I think alongside Steps it's better to cull defective chicks rather than fixing and "cheating".
Yesterday I found a stunned cockatiel baby... decided to lit the kitchen to boil some water and prepare some baby food formula for a back-up feed... then I thought it was better to put off the fire and let the chick find his own way.

Maybe the chick is right, but the parents don't have good parenting skills... it could be a million reasons, but whatever the reason I don't really care.
If his brother or other cockatiels are doing it fine with the same diet and conditions, this bird is inferior, worse-adapted to the captive conditions I can provide them.

When all the chicks are defective or have growth problems, then maybe it's because you are making a mistake.

About checking the nest... unless you know the hen is calm and reacts well, I suggest not checking the nest or doing it very carefully. I have lost eggs and chicks because the hen starts jumping like crazy inside the nest.
Some hens are calmer and leave the nest without problems, other hens are a pain in the ass and even banding the chicks is a mission.

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Gee
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject:

Steffie,

I agree with steps and pabloc. I know you and I know Tommie and Pukkie.
They raised a few beautiful, healthy and very well socialised chicks. I am so lucky to have one of them <v>

Let nature take its course. If this chick has health problems and is not strong enough to survive, than thats the way it is.. no matter how sad that may seem to us humans.

I know.. easy for us to say, I know how much you care about your birds.
But, If us humans intervene it seldom leads to any good.

So I would advise you to leave it be for now and not try to handfeed.
IF the chick survives over the next few days, you can still decide to help it recover from the spread legs later on.
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May
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject:

Gee wrote:
Steffie,

So I would advise you to leave it be for now and not try to handfeed.
IF the chick survives over the next few days, you can still decide to help it recover from the spread legs later on.


good plan....

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Steffie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject:

Thank you all for your comments!

Before, Tommie and Pukkie had feeding four chicks very well.
I know that's not a reason all the other litters are going to be good.. but I think too; there was something wrong with the second one.
It seems he was ok at his first day(s). I think Pukkie has known there's something wrong with him. The little fighter died a couple of days ago. Crying or Very sad

Before I opened this topic I'd thinking about handfeeding, but I was quickly sure: I won't. The reasons are already called Wink

I looked once in three days to the chicks. For a couple of days Pukkie isn't the whole day in her litter. Now I look only if she is outside.

The two chicks are very cute! The oldest is a female (don't know how to name a bird female... hihi).

8th of October


14th of October
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject:

A note on splayed legs...the leg , and hip bones and muscles are some of the last to devalope, so so chicks are very weak at these pionts.
Even placing a young chick on a smooth surface Table top or even cardboard, its very easy to have a hip dislocate or a unformed tendon to slip around the the knee joint causing splayed leg(s)
This is why it is not a good idea to handle chicks unless one is very familar with doing so.
If chicks are in a position they are not familar with (say palm of the hand) they try to use unformed muscles and legs..again often causing issues....
When we had CCTV camera in a nesting box, young chicks did near to no moving around, the hen moved them, rolled them into position.
Also I believe removing unhatched eggs should not be done.
Dud eggs are usually buried by the hen, I personally have a therory a couple eggs are not meant to hatch, but act as hot water bottles for when the hen is not there...These eggs the chicks prop them selve up and around. If they are not there then there is nothing for the center chick(s) to prop themselves up with to keep heads above and up with therest of the chicks.....maybe this could also cause leg issue struggling to keep up.???

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