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booth81
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Joined: May 16, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 2:14 am    Post subject: please help

i have a three month old male kakariki and am new to these birds he lives in a cage and comes out regularly. he is a very active and pleasant bird usually we have gotten up today and pipin is laid on his side on the bottom of the cage he doesn't seem to b able to use either leg he cant perch. He eating and drinking but only because its close he keeps trying t fly but strudles he cant land. Please can someone help me i have rang the vets and they r telling me that the only vets that will deal with pipin is over 50 miles away i am devastated please help.
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Gee
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:27 am    Post subject:

Booth,

Sorry to hear this!!

First of all, give gim some dextro energy or sugar water or some vitamine baby sirup.
Put him somewhere warm, quiet and darkfor a while.
Maby use a hot water bottle in asmall cage with a towel to cover the cage.
And call a vet.. even if it is too far you could discuss things over the phone at least.


I am not a vet offcourse, and actually that's whom you should contact for a proff opinion.

Sounds to me like a balance disturbance.
Could be caused by things as:

Trauma ; did he hurt himself in the cage or while flying?
virus; Paramyxovirus 3
bad diet
epilepsia
poison of led, zinc, toxic plants
earinfection

And many other reasons. Too many to give you an advice over the internet. Other than keep him warm and dark. Make sure he can't climb up anything high right now.

good luck, hope the little fellow will feel better soon!!!
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booth81
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:46 am    Post subject:

thanks gee
think he must have fallen and hurt himself. vets want me to take him but they think he will need putting to sleep. they have suggested the same as urself. thankyou am going to see how he goes over the nxt few days but may have t face the fact that he needs to b put out of his misey
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bruce
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:43 am    Post subject:

hi
other than getting him to that vet keep him warm in a small cage or box
keep him hydrated and see if he comes round ... are there any injuries you might have over looked?....do you keep him in the kitchen ?? if yes do you use Teflon coated cookware ?? this is highly toxic to birds.
hope your kak gets well soon let us know how the little fella gets on.

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thanks brucie.....
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Gee
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:51 am    Post subject:

Booth,

Lets hope this is just temporally.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for him!

Keeping him warm prevents him from wasting energy on keeping his body on temp. Try to warm up his direct environment on a temp of at least 20 degrees celcius.. higher than that is even better ( up to 30Celsius)
The sugar water ( dextro or vitamine syrup with water) gives him some energy.
If he starts eating, give him soft things like peeled sunflowerseeds or foxtail millet for a while.

Have you checked his legs/ wings? nothing broken?
Maybe he has hurt his back? broken a rib? That could cause a nerve or a vain to be blocked.

How is his breathing? Is he grasping for breath?


If you have the time, and your little friend is feeling better, maybe you could tell us what his diet has been like up to now.
Lack of vitamine B influences the nerve system. Lack of vit. D causes rachitis.
If it is a diet problem you might be able to prevent this from happening in the near future.

Some birds are epileptic. Can be helped with medication.

The more you tell us about where his cage is, what kind of cage, his diet, usual behaviour etc the better we can try to help you out.

again, good luck!!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject:

Gee is on the mark above..
What I would suspect....hes 3 months....
young birds very rarely hurt themselves falling or banging into stuff, except if leave the nese realy, dislocate or break a wing /leg.
Asuming diet, and the diet in the nest box is good.....free of worms...
Comes from a breeding line with genetic defects, Which covers some of what Gee above...including heart, kidney and even blindness in 1 country.

Goo asks about teflon....do you have ANY teflon cooking pans, cake dishes etc....Alrhu Teflon is more resportory in symtoms...I would not count it out.

I would be going back to the place the bird was sourced from.

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booth81
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject:

thanks for all the helpful replies.
Having looked closely at pip legs can see a red bruise likeon one leg and a graze on the other am keepin him currently in a small box with soft warm bedding and food and sugar vitamin water.hes eating well usually he is kept in a large corner cagewhen he comes out he gerner ally plays with the children hes very rarely in the kitchen and never unsupervised wen out of his cage. his dietvaries eggfood fresh fruit andveg and the local pet shop has a australian mix they call it especially for the rosellas and kakarikis we also hve in a different cage two 7 month old rosellas who are perfectly fine pip is active alert eating and drinking well just frustrated that he cannot be asactive as usuall. i think that he may have damaged both of his legs he cannot grip even my finger he make no attemp to use them his feet are curled up and very cold. am very worried im going to lose my little friend . Sad Sad
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Gee
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject:

If a bird is stressed they reduce blood-flow to the feet to provide extra oxygenation to flight muscles and core organs... A bird's feet will vary in temperature over the day, and depending on activity, but in general constantly cold feet are a bad sign, and warm feet a good one.

Is he ringed? If so.. watch out for swellings, the ring could cause a block in blood-flow. Get rid of the ring if you notice a swelling.

A bird is a pray animal.. he will always prevent showing signs of illness. Specially when he thinks he is being watched.
So observe without him seeing you. what do you see?
If he is all fluffed up he tries to keep his body on right temp. In that case, heat up his environment.
If he is flapping or breeding with mout open.. he is too warm, and you should lower environment temp.

Glad to hear he eats and drinks.. Give him the best food you have right now, instead of the foxtail millet and other fatty stuff I adviced at first.

Have you asked the kids if they know what might have happened?
I am not accusing them of anything.. but I remember one of my children had "an accident" with a hamster and did not tell me till it was too late.
Any other animals in the house? Cat, dog?

I still think you should go see, or at least call, a vet.
Him still being alive is a good sign. Most ill parakeets die within the hour.
Because they hardly show any signs of illness , by the time they do, its over fast.
I am starting to think this is because of an accident, not a virus or anything like that. Accidents can be fixed a lot easier.

I know vets can be expensive, but they are also animal lovers.
IF ( and I say IF) money is an issue ask him for an arangement, pay in terms.
Sounds like he has been, and still is a bundle of joy to you and your family.. he is worth the extra trouble..

Good luck, keep us posted.. :)
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booth81
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject:

pip is still lively but has plucked his chest nearly bare of feathers and is becoming increasingly distressed and nasty
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bruce
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject:

hi
give this link a check over goes thru all reasons for feather plucking... pay attention in particular to the metabolic/systemic disorders half way down the page this would explain the all your birds symtoms ... hope it helps.

http://www.birdcareco.com/English/Arts/Health%20arts/Feather/Vet/Vet.html

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thanks brucie.....
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booth81
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject:

thanks brucie
this feather plucking has only started since the change in cage to a convalesent one so think it is pipin expressing his discontent at his current surroundings as he is usually so happy. his feet r no warmer gee but hes so lively and eating well. rang the nearest vets that will deal with him and was told to do pretty much what have already been told on here orto take him in but this is well over 5o miles away. there are three dogs in the house so yes they may have hurt him but we lock them in the kitchen away from the birds at night, the kids may very well have had an accident with him as the two and a half year old was learning with adult supervision how to get pip to stand on his arm and has shown us today that he can open the cage pip was in. the other childrn know not to get him out without us around but at 7 , 13 and 15 this doesnt nessiceraly mean that they didn't.Especially as the 15 year old was caught getting him out of the hospital cage we have made this morning. it doesnt matter what we do pipin tries to stand and cant he is using his beak to pullhislf around or flapping his wing to gain height his legs jjust dangle there. but hes not feeling sorry for hiself, i hope my little friend recovers but am getting increasingly concerned the avian vet has said that they will instruct the local vet in the correct dosage etc to put pip to sleep if this is what we decide. with the other birds being in good health inculding pip other than his legs i am increasingly begining to believe that he either fell n gt trapped in the cage bars on the bottom which correspond with the marks onhis legsor that an accident/ excited chld happened. Applause Crying or Very sad
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Gee
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject:

Booth,

Have you concidered the possibility it's not so much out of discontent with his current envoriment that he started plucking, but out of pain/ frustration of not being able to use his legs?

I am sorry to sound so... negative... but I can't help feeling VERY sad for the bird.
He can't take care of himself and is totally depending on you for his well being.
Now more than ever!
If he does not get the right care, he might never be able to use his legs again.
In my opinion you only have 2 choices, either you take him to a vet to make sure he get's the best care possible, or you put him out of his missery.
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject:

Quote:
there are three dogs in the house so yes they may have hurt him but we lock them in the kitchen away from the birds at night,


Dogs are great and easy to train to co habit..locking away they learnt to resent.
We had a russian blue cat...I mention the breed because it is basically a killer hunter cat, a breed on co habits with rather than cuddly.
She would hunt outside, but with very little training would not tough the house parrots or the avairies.
Our house parrots are out of the cage 24/7 365 days, even on holiday, wandering the house....and so is the cat... no worries.

Plucking...I have never seen it in kakariki, though have seen very poorly looked after kakariki almost nude to cant fly.
Their independant nature prevents any pscoplogical emotionally dependant on the owner issue..even for extended periods in the isolated hospital cages.

Get in with a couple drops of invemectin on the back of the head..repeated 10 to 12 day later...and the 50/50 vinegar, and apple cider as above.

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booth81
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject:

Pips legs are warm tday N he tried t grab my finger think the splints and convelescence may hv helped the legs hope this turns out t b the breakwe needed
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Gee
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject:

That is real good news! Glad to hear that!
Applause

Splints? I did not know you gave him splints. Cool!
What did you use? drinkingstraw? carbon?

Anyway, congrats, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
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