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rayholt48
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:29 am    Post subject: advice required

hello from the uk. i have a pair of breeding kaks.she has laid an egg which appears ok as the first was infertile. the question is.the male spends all the time sitting on the egg while the female stays on her own in the cage occaisionally calling him out to feed him. is this normal both are well although young she is 1yr he is 10mths.

ray holt
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject:

Are you sure you have the male and female around the right way, this behavour is around the other way,,, hen sits male feeds her.

Dont worry aboyr not all the eggs being fertile.
A good rule of thumb is about 70% of eggs are raised to healthy birds leaving the nest.
80% and your are doingf damn well.
I have a therory that not all eggs are meant to be fertile....the infetile eggs act as a hotwater bottle for the young chicks to keep warm when the hen occassionally leaves the nest.
The infetile eggs are rolled together with the young chicks huddled around them.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I have a therory that not all eggs are meant to be fertile....the infetile eggs act as a hotwater bottle for the young chicks to keep warm when the hen occassionally leaves the nest.


very interesting
I always wondered about breeders removing unfertile eggs, but maybe it's a good idea to leave them in the nest.

Cheers/ Pablo

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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject:

We have never removed eggs unless the nest has been abanonded or till chicks start getting a good cover of adult feathers.

I sort of thought about this for some yrs, but this last season when a couple pairs went to nest middle of winter, frost on the ground days less than 7 C ...when checking nests (was worried about dead chicks etc) noticed the young chicks would be wraped tight around the old eggs..move them away and they would immediately return like little magnets.

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pabloc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject:

A good friend of mine, portuguese breeder showed me once an interesting experiment.
Newborn chick (few days old) left him in the edge of the electric brooder. Slowly went walking towards the warmest part of the brooder.

Kakariki chicks are very funny, with their rather long necks tied up around signlol I have to be careful to remove them from the nest

Cheers / Pablo

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rayholt48
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:23 am    Post subject:

what we thought was the male was bonking the female as we thought.the reason being being one has a larger beak and is bigger so we thought he is male.it turns out we have 6 eggs not one.took a crafty peak while she was off the nest.didnt check if all were fertile didn't want to disturb them.so it seems male is smaller than female.
can't wait to see them hatch. I am so happy

cheers ray
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peanutnella
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject:

rayholt48 wrote:
what we thought was the male was bonking the female as we thought.the reason being being one has a larger beak and is bigger so we thought he is male.it turns out we have 6 eggs not one.took a crafty peak while she was off the nest.didnt check if all were fertile didn't want to disturb them.so it seems male is smaller than female.
can't wait to see them hatch. I am so happy

cheers ray

Very interested in your comment as I thought I had 2 hens and I got a handtamed hen to put with them to help me tame the other two but of the two I got the smaller one has tried mounting and mating the larger hen who has now layed eggs and is about to lay her third egg, they both seem to be attentive to the nest as in they dont poo near it and they both chew pper for the bedding but the larger hen sits on the nest, she isnt finished laying yet but she is beginning to sit! My question is that if there is a cock in there will he pair up with one hen and will the hens fight over the cock or will the cock fertilize all hens if left in with them during the breeding season? What is your advice here if indeed it turns out I have a cock bird in the mix? Thanks!
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:48 am    Post subject:

IMHO hell will break loose

I would release a cock and a hen in a neutral place, otherwise either of them could be too territorial and not breed succesfully.
Kikes can be released anywhere as far as there is no breeding in process involved, otherwise problems are likely to happen (just my 2 cents).

Cheers / Pablo

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peanutnella
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:24 am    Post subject:

pabloc wrote:
IMHO hell will break loose

I would release a cock and a hen in a neutral place, otherwise either of them could be too territorial and not breed succesfully.
Kikes can be released anywhere as far as there is no breeding in process involved, otherwise problems are likely to happen (just my 2 cents).

Cheers / Pablo

Okay so what you are saying and correct me if I am wrong here as I am not sure what you mean by release?? You mean I think that if I end up with one of my three hens being a cock bird then I should pair a cock and a hen in a new aviary cage and leave the other hen in the old cage as long as the cock has not already paired with the other hen. Am I correct?
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject:

Hi!

yes, basically avoid threesomes, 2 or more pairs, etc... in the same place with nests.

If you have 2 hens paired together, and you place a male in the same cage, I think problems will probably arise, and even if you place a new male and remove one of the females.
I think it's better to make introductions in a neutral enviroment, as Steps usually says.

As far as there is no breeding going on, you can usually release new birds in an aviary or cage and they will sort out pecking order peacefully (taking for granted they have enough space).

If you make a quick search on words like pecking order, fight, quarrel, etc... you might find some old posts about similar topics.

Cheers / Pablo

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peanutnella
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject:

Thanks! I got what I originally was told were two boys, then I was informed by beak size and bird size that they were two girls so I purchased a third girl which was handtamed to put in with the two hens thinking it might help tame them as they have been manhandled a bit by former experiences both in pet shop and their last home, so I thought a handtamed bird unafraid of me would help them to overcome their fear, I never put the third hen with them as I saw one hen mate the other, or appear to do so, then the hen that was mounted and mated had eggs and is now sitting on them being attended to by the other hen or possibly cock, but now I dont know whether Ive got a cock or a hen with the hen that is sitting on the eggs, it could be a cock with a small beak in there, as from reading here I see this can happen so was wondering if maybe I should get a second aviery cage for the third hen!...this could only happen to me Laughing Also was wondering if I could have a DNA test done that wouldnt involve me grabbing them and pulling out 3 breast feathers or by having a blood test done either, like could I pick up feathers belonging to the bird in question and have it DNA sexed? Or is there another way I dont know about! I know from the eggs that I have one hen but I would like to have the other two DNA sexed if at all possible, they both look like hens but Im inclined to think that one of them at least might be a cock! If I am right and one is a cock then I cannot put the third Kakariki in with them.
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pabloc
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:50 am    Post subject:

Hi!

yes... apparently some males can have "feminine characteristics" and some females "masculine characteristics".
Instead of spending 10Euro/bird in DNA sexing, wait for a couple of days and see if any of the eggs are fertile. If so, then you clearly have a breeding pair, if not, maybe you have 2 hens.
Another option is shooting a few pics (not blurry please) and see if here in the forum we can make a guess.

Besides the shape of the beak, cocks have a bigger head and their underwing stripe is less marked.
Females have smaller and narrower head compared to their body and the underwing stripe is longer and more defined.

Hope this helps!

Cheers / Pablo

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peanutnella
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject:

I already posted pics, the first pics I sent in Steptoe thought they were two boys, the second pics I sent in you felt they were two girls, I sent another few pics to another forum where there are Kakariki breeders and they also agree with you that these are two girls and on looks though they are too wild to check under the wing, I would also agree two girls yet something is niggling me and telling me that the cinnamon one, which is the smaller of the two might be a cock bird! Yes I could check to see if any of the eggs are fertile. I have never done that before though so I would hope I get it right Anxious Thanks!

This is the hen Peanut and she has layed the eggs!


Now this is the ?hen?cock Kiwi










Body shots




Maybe some one of these pics will say something to you or maybe a combination of all of them might! But not to worry if they dont time will tell me what I have got I just need to have patience!
Thanks Pabloc! Sorry for being such a pest! :oops:
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peanutnella
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject:

I forgot, this is Cricket the third hen and a handtamed baby, she was purchased to help tame the other two when I thought the other two were two hens! This does get confusing doesnt it! Laughing

Cricket hen








These are the best ones I have of baby Cricket, the last one is a bit blurry, sorry!:oops:
Again Thanks Pabloc!
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject:

I would still say the cin is female and ther is also female
Now with both together not so sure on the luntino...
We have had a couple large females with middle sized beak like that and very large in the body...intially thought female till they laid eggs.

Cin definately female....she is very scruffy???
Even in moult or after laying and raising 5 batches in a row or kakariki dont get anywere that scruffy.

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