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Kakariki, Care, Breeding, Ecology, and Conservation :: View topic - New Kakariki display
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New Kakariki display
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Seahorse
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: New Kakariki display

Hi Guys
Thanks to everyones help we have had a kakariki display up and running for about a year now. We love them so much we are going to move them into a bigger display and hopefully find some more kakariki. We currently have a display that is 5m x 1.2m x 1.5, and we are looking at moving them into an old corner tank display with allot more room. This is the weird shaped tank we have. It also has snapper in it at the moment so we will have to move them out. Wink
5m
ooooooooo
ooooooooo 1.3m
oooooo2m
ooooo
oooo
ooo
ooo2m
ooo
1.3m

Bad diagram i know but it is like two rectangles either side with a big triangle in the middle the back walls are 5m. The height of the walls is probably 3-4meters haven't measured that yet. Just wondering everyones thoughts on stocking levels of kakariki for this size display and also flooring. The bottom of the tank is concrete and we are questioning weather to us sand or soil. I am leaning towards sand reading the different posts on this website, however this will be a public display so we are going to try and make it a natural as possible.
Cheers
Regan
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject:

OK I dont realy get the diamentions of the new flight

But 5m x 1.2m x 1.5,

We have for some time 22 in a flight 2,5x1.2x 2m H.
Automatic watering, floors cleaned every 4 to 7 days..(concret with A3 pumice sand) and deep seed trays to stop scattering... perches arranged hung in such a manner pecking order is established and good flying lines.
See u are in NZ.
DoC will throw their arms in the air and say over crowding...

We had a DoC person drop in and saw the flight, I quickly went in made a coffe while he watched them.
When I came out the comment was " i have never seen so many kakariki in such a small space" "it is amazing to see them interact and as happy , in such good condition"
Chat then moved onto other subjects while we where sitting 500mm from the front of the flight at the coffee table.
He also knows that routine maintance, feeding, diet etc is held at a high standard here.
Kakariki are a flock bird.
Yes with that number maintace was far greater, 8 to 10 is a good number for that size as a dispaly , no nesting boxes, and enhough perches at different heights so they can establish the pecking order

Birds are like tropical fish...can be crowed but the 'pollution levels' MUST be routinely and strictly kept down...and the same goes for mixed species, they must be compatable, and breeding /terrorty can be an issue with some of the species

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Seahorse
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Hi
Yes my pic was very weird and confusing.
The shape is strange the footprint is about 12.5 meters squared and the height is 3meters.
I was thinking about 8-10 Kakariki, The doc guys we deal with said to consult the experts on this website when we got our permit with respect to stocking numbers and housing requirements.
The display will be able to be viewed from two different heights one at ground level and we also have a window about 1.5m to 2.5m of the ground the windows about a meter by a meter on one of the other sides. Do you see this causing any problems.
Thanks again
Regan
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The shape is strange the footprint is about 12.5 meters squared and the height is 3meters


The Problem with high ceilling flights is if you ever need to catch them...they are quick and go high.
A soln to this is to divide the flight with an open 'door' to a lower ceilling area that you can 'herd' them into.

12.5 msq ...you could house 25/30 + quite easy...

Quote:
The display will be able to be viewed from two different heights one at ground level and we also have a window about 1.5m to 2.5m of the ground the windows about a meter by a meter on one of the other sides. Do you see this causing any problems.


No.

A note on display flights...generally people make them deep with small veiwing....our 'display' flights are side on....1.2m deep approx 2,5/3 m wide...instead of the birds hanging out way up thr back, they are near the veiwer, get used to it very quick and the alpha males get very tame,

Also the walls of a flight, make a dark green or brown...the birds do not feel as 'exposed' when they know they sort of blend into backgrounds

If you have say a flock of 5 kakariki, do not introduce new ones 1 by one, drop at least 3 or 5 at the same time, and mid day to mid afternoon is a good time.....If you want to introduce freshly weined or not yet weaned young, thats not an issue, the older males will take over weaning even thu they dont know them.

Quote:
I was thinking about 8-10 Kakariki, The doc guys we deal with said to consult the experts on this website when we got our permit with respect to stocking numbers and housing requirements.


Thats interesting...I for one have rubbed DoC quite baddly over the yrs as to their total lack of consultation etc with kakariki...thu it does happen 'on the quiet'
Over the last yr, somewhere in DoC the 'word' has sort of spread, even to the extent new permit issuers have come here to find out whats what, and even had informal phone calls when the asking what should be allowed and not.

But no movement on using private breeders to restock our forests for free, or allowing our children to keep them like early settlers and maori, and like in the rest of the world...stuck with budgies and cockeils

On a +ve note, sounds like you have a good DoC guy down your way...bet he gets his boots dirty, not a desk jockey.

Will pm you.

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Seahorse
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject:

Thank again Steptoe you have been a great help again, now i have to kick my snapper out and make an new kakariki display. I think i already have a couple of kakariki for our new display a lady in nelson who is looking for yellow fronted kakariki is going to give me her red fronted if she finds some yellow fronted breeders with spare birds down this way.
Cheers
Regan
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject:

I only know of 3 maybe 4 yellow crown breeders that have unhybrisised yellow crown stock, all but 1 in the Nth island

And no one has any stock avalible till Jan/Feb, thu all going right we have 3 pairs sitting and going to nest at the moment.
, they would be Nov /Dec.
Shipping by the air companies is bloody expensive have used these ppl a couple times and very good
http://www.petbus.co.nz/

I think Blenhum way is about $80 per cage, which if shipped like we do is 5 to 12 kakariki.
We dont ship as per 'politically correct' the birds strees and can have a hard time....The guys in Aussie put us onto this when we ehere over their...they ship from Sydney to Perth nps.
Think like this...6 or 8 kakariki plus parents in a nesting box with chicks near full grown...and are in there for several weeks....
Common sence?
Small dark box with a branch perch screwed to the inside bottom, 1/2 " dia air holes... throw some caspsicum in for water...bit of apple, bit of seed, throw 4 to 6 kakariki in and screw the lid on....good for at least 36hrs
They come out not even ruffled up.

At the moment we have about 3 female and 10 male red crown spare., all from last season ready to breed and spare males held back from the previous season as possible prime breeding stock.
We will need the space in a week or so.
Havnt done an exact count...we are going to need space in a week or so time.

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jessbird
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Im the person looking for yellow fronted parakeets, could you give me the contact details of any yellow breeders.
Cheers
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject:

I think you know John locally to you, and last I heard he has none.
The others are up this way, I know they dont have any spare and they are hesident to have details put out as they also breed very expenive high end parrots /birds

When some come avalible we have a mailing list we send out.

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matt
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:37 am    Post subject:

if you can find a contact for the tasman parrot club i believe someone in motueka has or used to have some.
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Stumbler
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Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Hi Regan

Good to hear your birds are well and of the proposed expansion for your display; I guess you've got until Xmas ...before the rush.Shocked
If you have trouble finding a home for those snapper, I can sort that out for you...I can house them in beer batter and lay then gently in the frying pan.Applause
Those Tuatara may appreciate a break from the unsighted chattering next to them! Anxious

Let me know if want anymore birds, always some here for you.

A few thoughts; I'm not sure, but from memory, will people have access to gain as much height as to stand/lean and overlook the roof of the display?, Just not sure how the birds may handle it, if so?, though plenty of refuge in the far corner, so should be right.
A good covering for concrete would be Beech Forest floor, in the right enviroment there is an endless supply and can be swept up in no time by the sack full with a leaf rake, the finished product once sieved on a rack, is exeptional. It would certainly look as natural as possible; probably a quick light raking would be needed in the mornings as the birds will dig like chooks down a few inches to the concrete, perhaps similar to what Blackbids will do to a bark garden!.
Replaceing with fresh material shouldn't be needed for at least a few weeks, depending on stocking. Around 6 or so sackfulls should cover you 12+ sqm; volunteer school kids would be handy source of harvesters!.

Look forward to a visit and all the best.

Re- Tasman Parrot Club, a couple of Ph #s worth a try: 03 5287142 & 03 5287298

Stblr
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
will people have access to gain as much height as to stand/lean and overlook the roof of the display?, Just not sure how the birds may handle it,


No I do not believe that would be an issue, we have holding flights and breeding flights like that, doesnt take long...days..for them to learn no threat and will feed , bath etc without a worry..totally ignoring whats up top....same with strangers....Even our cat sitting there looking down....anyother cat...warning go out around the avairies.

Quote:
probably a quick light raking would be needed in the mornings

No I dont think so...kakariki do a lot of digging on the forest floor, both reds and yellows going from our dirt floor flights....they are very good at it.
Even a small hole appeared in the motar base of one of our flights, very compacted ground underneath....nps to the kakariki to dig out...If there are grubs down there they will dig.

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Seahorse
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject:

Hi Stumbler
Yes your birds are being great little ambassadors for kakariki, they are inquisitive with anyone that walks past. The Tuatara will be getting some quieter neighbors some stephens island tuts so we will have both species at the aquarium.
The Snapper would look good in batter i reckon too but not sure how they would taste like, they were born in the aquarium and have been feed mainly barracuda with one feed a week of mussels. So you know the old phrase you are what you eat they will probably taste like barracuda. Laughing
Thanks also for the help with birds i am hopefully going to have the display up and running before long, just waiting for school holidays to finish then will start looking at getting started.
Cheers guys for all the advice its nice to get some info from guys that have looked after these guys for as long as you have.
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Seahorse
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Also as to access of people looking into the display most of the viewing area will be at ground level. However there will be viewing area on one of the other walls. But no one will be looking down above the roof into the display, and the two 5m walls at the back of the display will not be viewing areas. so of the five sides 2 walls will have viewing access.
Hope this makes sense.
Regan
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Seahorse
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Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject:

Hi Guys
Also what do you think of sex ratios i have one female at the moment with two boys. With a population around 8-10 do you think just one girl and the rest males or add another female into the mix.
Cheers
Regan
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Steptoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject:

Are you going to have breeding boxes?..thats asking for trouble, sometimes works out other times(most) doesnt

To advoid all potentual trouble just females or males...all males gives better display.
If really want a mix say 10 kakariki, 50/50 or a couple more males than females.
A lot depends on If adding kakarki to a flock never add just one, like hens always add several at a time 3 or 4.
The more space in the flight the less chjance of trouble
The higher number of kakariki in a flock the less trouble.

Floors..been reading posts above again...we have messed with dirt , concret, motar, diff sands for the mortar, floor coverings over all the above, bark, coarse , fine, different gravels, types of sands, mulch and forest multch.
Bottom line I work hard at being lazy, and have to keep high stds of care because one doesnt 'get into DoC' without doing so.
Currently we have 13 flights in a vavaries with motar floors and a couple of dirt...about 45/50 sq M with another 30 to 40 sq m under construction.
To stop mess, deep seed and veg fruit trays
Veg and protein chopped up by hand with a VERY sharpe knife to pea to 1/2 pea size
Floors must be dry..this also prevents inhibits worms etc....and fresh water everyday..automatic watering system...but then have over flow....we have holes with 15L buckets inserted in the floor with mesh over and water tray on top of that....the bucket has 1/2" holes to drain which feeds the trees around the flights.
Floor covering A3 pumice sand spread just enough to cover the floor be it dirt or hard...this stuff is cheap, light to carry and clean up.
Cleaning floors, is a quick rake with a fine hand leaf rake, tends to filter the crap and leave the good sand behind, scooped up (and spread around our trees, which get pruned in winter and use for following winters heating...feilizing the roses and veg gardens.)
About 30 to 40L is all that is required to replenish about 30 to 40 sq ms
Takes about 45 mins 1 person, every 10 to 14 days keeping between 50 and 80 parrots of several species during breeding season...sometimes more.
Cost $5.50 for about 3 months plus labour.
Going by your 12 sq m and only 10, to keep clean/presentable, would only need to do 4 to 6 weeks maybe more.
Seed trays have enough for 2 weeks, but replenished about 7 to 10 days.
Water trays get scrubbed out and poured into the buckets underneath when doing seed...approx 30 mins
Seed trays are shaken, husk floats to the top, and skimmed off...having several different species, other eat what the kakariki dont....and the husk skimed off is put in the communty flight in a seed tray...with there normal trays, to dig thru what little is left...and thrown out next seed change
No wastage

We have a couple button quail in most of the flights, they are great to clean up old vegg meat and fruit, little vaccuum cleaners
IF weka where not so noisey and we didnt live in the city I would have them as vaccuum cleaners and special interest running around... We have a freind who has a hen and rabbit in with their parrot avary....
This all sort of starts to move into an artificial 'balance of nature' enviroment.....get the balance right..less cost, less work, better birds.
"work hard at being lazy"

The thing with DoC ..try and find someone in DoC who has breed and experimented freely for many yrs to find what works....
Try and source the DoC recomendations back to some serious practical kakariki research....
This is reflected in the early stages of the orange recovery program...breeding in large PC flights, then chase them down (stress), drop into large PC transport containers (stress) 1/2 die and blame on kakariki being sensitive to transportation ...kakariki , even orange are some of the hardest parrots in the world.
The deskjockeys in DoC have to seriously start to wake up and not just listen politely (cause we dont have PhDs) but actually make use of decades of experimentation and experiance... rather than cock up and place endangers species further at risk. This doesnt just go for kakariki , but weka and many other bird species, reptiles and native fish.

Food for thought, 3 pair last yr sat 5 times(forced to stop) they had between 5 and 7 weaned chicks per patch..that approx 90 to a hundred kakariki...from 5 blood lines.
Lets assume if released in an unprotected enviroment, say an urban bush researve, and only 5 or 10 % survived to reprocuce like rossella, lorries, sulphur crested etc did/do (at far higher survival rates Im assuming the worst)..it would not take long to have native parrot in backyards like Aussie.
There is no research 'official' on this, and DoC has no intentions of doing so... They can have the kakariki at the cost of breeding them..near free since we grow our own veggies.
But as we know there have been many illegal releases over the last 60 or 70 yrs....and there are established flocks around, even in semi urban areas, that DoC covers up by saying they flew in, but one knows better because of chats over a coffee....and the very expensive orange breeding/translocation program.
I honestly believe If private breeders charged DoC a fortune for each bird for release, rather than for free, DoC would be far more responsive...and they are...I refuse to accept or do that....I love NZ, I love the bush, its not 'up for sale'...Even this web server, web sites, mail servers , hardware, bandwidth, maintance is all supplied and financed by us for free...notice no commericalism or google ads etc?
Bloody desk jockeys at DoC get up my nose as much as if not more than the DoC guys and ex DoC, who have the experiance and get their boots dirty.

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